DINA CLAIRE ORAL HISTORY

SADIE GOLD-SHAPIRO: This is Sadie Gold-Shapiro and today is October 9th, 2018. I'm here at the Yiddish Book Center in Amherst, Massachusetts with Dina Claire and we are going to record an interview as part of the Yiddish Book Center's Wexler Oral History Project. Dina Claire, do I have your permission to record this interview?

DINA CLAIRE: Absolutely, Sadie.

SGS: All right, let's roll. Thank you. So, let's start at the beginning. You were born in 1933 in Newark, New Jersey.

DC: Yes.

SGS: Can you tell me a little bit about your family background?

DC: Well, we lived in a house with my mother and father and her parents, my grandparents, Gussie and Hymie Kritzman. And my father was George Gelman and my 1:00mother, of course, was Sadie Kritzman-Gelman. (laughs) And living together with my grandparents was wonderful because they spoke Yiddish in addition to English. And it gave me the opportunity to be able to not converse, but understand a lot. And the best thing about it was I began singing when I was five years old. God didn't give me much of a body, as far as height is concerned. But God gave me this six-foot voice (laughs) in a four-foot, nine-inch, eventually, adult body. And so, they taught me Yiddish songs and they would bring me to their 2:00organization that they belonged to, which was the Chudnover K.U.V. These were all my grandmother's friends. They were lovely women. They were all from Russia. Both grandparents on both sides were from Russia. And they would stand me on a chair because I was so teeny-tiny at five. (laughs) And I would sing, "Sha, shtil! Makh nisht kayn gerider. D’rebe geyt shoyn tantsn vider. Sha, shtil! Makh nisht kayn gevald. D’rebe geyt shoyn tantsn bald. [Shh, quiet! Don’t make a scene. The rebbe is dancing again. Shh, quiet! Don’t make a fuss. The rebbe is getting ready to dance.]" And everybody would kvell. (laughs) So, that was a great benefit to me because later on, I became a professional singer and -- very 3:00successful one. And I had the opportunity to perform my one-woman show many, many, many times at resort hotels. And at the time, the Catskill Mountain resort hotels, the Concord, Grossinger's, Kutsher's, Raleigh, I mean there were a hundred places to perform. And most of the audiences, they were mostly Jewish. And so, I was a trained classical singer and I would sing songs in different languages. Eight languages. And didn't speak them but I sang them. And part of that was Yiddish and Hebrew and all the shtiklekh [little scenes]. And not too many opera singers were able to do that. So, I combined the two and it was a 4:00very potent combination.

SGS: I want to circle back to your childhood. I'm so excited to talk about the Borscht Belt, I really am. (laughter) But I'd love to talk a little bit more about your family. Do you remember if you took meals together, if you went to particular religious events or cultural events aside from the K.U.V.?

DC: That was interesting that you said, Do we take meals together? My grandparents, Hymie and Gussie, were religious. They were not Reformed.

SGS: Orthodox.

DC: Orthodox, okay, and my mother and father -- my mother was sort of noncommittal. Well, she was Jewish, very Jewish custom-wise, but she didn't follow the religion. My father, on the other hand, was not religious at all. So, 5:00we had an eating problem because he liked to eat bacon (laughs) and -- with his eggs -- and we had one kitchen downstairs, on the first floor. It was a two-story house and the bedrooms were upstairs. Well, my grandfather was a carpenter. So, my mother and father became very upset with this conflict here. And so, to keep us in the house, my grandfather built a kitchen onto the second story (laughs) of the house, which was part of our bedrooms, okay? So, we had a little area with the upstairs bathroom and then my grandparents had their bedroom away on the other side. So, it worked out perfectly and my father was 6:00able to eat anything he wanted and that solved the problem.

SGS: Oh, that's great. I'm told I should ask you about Chinese food.

DC: Oh, my grandmother was also -- my grandfather was the one. He used to stand by the window, he used to pray with the shawl and all the tfiln [phylacteries worn by Jews] and he was very, very involved in his religion. And my grandmother, on the other hand, she became very modernized. She was a clothing designer. She was a dressmaker and she had her own business and they did very well for foreigners coming to a new country. And so, where was I? What was the --

SGS: Chinese food.

DC: Chinese food! Of course, my grandfather never ate Chinese food. That was never a question about it. My grandmother, on the other hand, used to go with my mother and I and she loved Chinese food. So, it was like, “Zog nisht gornisht [Don’t say anything].” (laughs) "I'm gonna stray a little and eat it." And so, she did. She broke the rule, but she didn't tell him, and if he knew, he didn't make a fuss about it. And they were happy together and we were all happy together. And it was a very happy childhood. And I loved the Yiddish flavor. And I remember every Jewish holiday, there was a little shul around the corner, and 8:00my grandmother and grandfather, especially on the High Holy Days, they were there for a long time. And they were separated. My grandmother sat upstairs, my grandfather was downstairs. And I would be expected to go around the corner and go into the shul and walk up to my grandparents and kiss them and say, "Happy New Year." And everyone would whisper, Kritzman's -- what's grandchild?

SGS: Eynikl [grandchild].

DC: Eynikl. Kritzman's eynikl, you know? And they were very proud of me. And of 9:00course, everybody knew me as a singer. And so, they were very proud when I came there. And I went upstairs and did the same to my grandmother.

[BREAK IN RECORDING]

SGS: So, let's jump back in. I love talking about the holidays. I was wondering if your family did anything in particular for Shabbos, for Shabbat, for Fridays, do you remember?

DC: No. The only really religious person was my grandfather.

SGS: Great.

DC: And of course, my father was entirely into another thing.

GILLIAN CULFF: You have talked in the past about Passover. I don't know if you want to talk about that, though.

DC: Well --

GC: About how long it was.

DC: Well, Passover, I don't have memories of it when I was really young. Let me think when it started, 'cause my mother's sister, Anne Kritzman Yampolsky, she 10:00had three sons. And we used to have the seder at our house on Dewey Street. And I forgot that: 53 Dewey Street, and in Newark. And what are my memories? Well, it was long. And they used to try to make Chaim cut it down. "Remember," you'd have to remind him, "don't keep it going because the children get very restless." Well, that's in every family, isn't it? (laughs) But he did his thing and we were all there, the Yampolskys, the Gelmans, and my mother's brother and his wife, Sol and Anita Kritzman and their daughter, Karen. And I think that was 11:00it for the family, the immediate family. And then, later on, as we all grew up and got married and everything, my cousin, Paul Yampolsky, would have the seders. And by that time, we had Gillian and Nancy, our daughters, and we would most of the time have the seders at Paul Yampolsky's house. In New Jersey, but in another suburb.

SGS: Great, thank you.

DC: Okay.

SGS: I'd love to talk about New Jersey. So, what was Newark like when you were there? What was your neighborhood like?

DC: Oh, it was great because it was very safe. Well, weren't most places in 12:00those days? I was born in 1933 and so, starting from the age ten or twelve, on Saturdays, we used to -- my mother used -- when I was young, my mother used to take me to the movies. And then, after the movies, we would go to Cohen's Knishes and have these wonderful potato knishes. I can still taste them. (laughs) I live in South Carolina now and we do have a Schlotzsky's Deli but that's it. And it's slightly like it, but there's nothing like those old places in the old days. And our area where we lived in Newark was a Jewish area. My high school was Weequahic High School. Weequahic is an Indian name. And I'd say 13:00ninety-nine percent of the students -- and it was a big high school -- ninety-nine percent were Jewish. And so, when I was younger, there was the movies and then we would get on the bus and go down into Newark, the city. And all the department stores were there. That's where you did your shopping. And so, that was a wonderful bus ride and I remember that. And I did that for many, many years. And of course, when I got older, I was able to go with my friends. And that's what we did. But one of the sad things about that bigness of the city 14:00and all the department stores -- my grandmother, in the early years, she had a store in downtown Newark and she made the flapper -- the ’20s beaded dresses. And when Ohrbach's, the big department store, came into Newark, it put my grandmother out of business. So, she just did sewing in the neighborhood where we lived, in that suburban part of Newark. And she worked for a furrier. Fur coats were big in those days. Not like today, where nobody wears them anymore. They wear fake furs. But in those days, furs were a sign of, what, richness or 15:00whatever. And she used to work for the furrier and she used to sew the linings and put the names in and do all those finishings. So, that's what happened as the culture changed and as things changed and became more modernized. But my grandmother and my mother taught me how to sew. And it's a good thing, because we were all short and there was no such thing as size seven or size five. (laughs) We would buy a thirteen and then raise the waist and raise the shoulders and just do a whole -- and, of course, shorten. And to this day, I'm able to shorten my pants and I have to shorten everything still, even if it's a 16:00seven or a five. But they taught me that skill and I sure love to sew. I really do. I used to take a dress -- this was when I was performing -- I would take a dress and I would redesign it so that I could wear it alongside with my stage wear, my stage wardrobe. And I loved making it into something new. And I would show it to my husband, and he said, "Where is that dress that I saw before?" I said, "Well, this is the same dress." But I had that skill.

SGS: That's great. Wow.

DC: And they were responsible for teaching me that. And I taught my daughters how to sew. So, they can do a little mending; they can do a little fixing.

SGS: I loved hearing about the potato knish. Mouth was just watering when I was listening. (laughter) Any other foods that you remember from your childhood (UNCLEAR)?

DC: Oh, yes, of course. What do I remember? Well, here's a story: in our kitchen, there was a big pot of chicken soup and my grandmother used to put the whole chicken in and boil it up in the soup. And I used to go in there, my mouth watering for the egelekh, the little yellow centers of the eggs. And I would beg her, "Grandma, the eggs. Please?" And she would fish out one, two -- she was very -- (laughs) she didn't want to give me a lot because they went down so fast. But that was great. I can still taste those eggs. I loved them. And I loved the smell of the cooking because Gussie was a great cook and my mother was 18:00a great cook, too. And they made all the basic foods, especially for the seder and for different events. I'm trying to think of what else. Flanken [flank (meat)]. My grandfather loved flanken. (laughs) It had very little taste, but there was something about these foods that just were so good, maybe because we had them when we were so young and then -- I was an only child, so I was spoiled rotten. You know? (laughs)

SGS: Mm, that sounds really good. Are there any other organizations or activities that you can think of that your family was involved in that you'd like to talk about?

DC: Yes. The YMHA in Newark was a huge place for Jews to gather. And there was a 19:00director, George H. Kahn. And I just found a flyer from one of those early shows. I was ten years old and my father was in the show because he was a bit of a ham. And he used to use spoons and play the spoons. (laughs) And he used to do a comedy routine where he would eat an apple and do something funny. And I have that picture of the revue. We did, what do they call it? "The YMHA Revue," something like that, and they did plays and everything. But this was a yearly thing and people would come and they would audition for it and everything. And I was the youngest singer to play in the YMHA. "The Bits of Hits," that was it. 20:00"The YMHA Bits of Hits with George H. Kahn." So, I was ten years old and I got up there and I was studying opera, the soprano solos. And I was taking lessons when I was ten 'cause I told my mother, "I want to study opera." And so, he had -- George H. Kahn had me onstage singing solo and singing a soprano thing.

SGS: That's amazing.

DC: A soprano song.

SGS: Wow. Looking back on your childhood, what values or practices do you think your parents were trying to pass on to you? And your grandparents, too, for that matter?

DC: Oh, honesty. And while my mother was very concerned, too concerned about me getting a swelled head -- because as I got older and my voice got bigger and 21:00well-trained, people used to kvell all the time and she did not want me to be like this woman's daughter who thought that she was -- well, I don't want to say it on camera. (laughs) It's very vulgar. She just didn't want me to be that way. So, she went a little overboard in trying to make me just a natural person. So, in most ways, I was. But I had to develop a sense of, Yeah, I am good and know it, because that's the one thing, confidence, that gets performers down. They can be the most talented in the world and if they don't have confidence, it doesn't come across. So, I learned to develop that confidence and send my energy 22:00to my audience and be relaxed. It took me a long time to do that. So, it worked out, but it took me back a little bit because she just didn't want her friends to think I was stuck-up.

SGS: Great. (laughter) So, I'm wondering: you were still a kid when World War II broke out. Do you have any memories from that time?

DC: Oh, I do. I remember we lived on Dewey Street and I remember the day that FDR died. And our neighbor, Mrs. Meyerson from across the street was sweeping the street and she yelled out to my grandmother or my mother, "FDR is dead!" And I remember that. "The president is dead!" And those streets, they echoed. You 23:00could hear what was going on in the street. And I remember that during the war, we had victory gardens on Dewey Street in different places. What else? Oh, and I remember when I was nine years old, my uncle, Sol, my mother's brother, he came home. He was in the Army and he served in France and in other areas. And he came home in one piece, thank God, and we had a big sign up in front of the doorway: "Welcome Home, Sol." I remember that very, very well. And we have a picture in the backyard of uncle Sol and aunt Anita and me.

SGS: Sweet. Do you have any other memories from your childhood you'd like to share before we move forward a little bit?

DC: I think I was seven. I recorded some songs and I don't remember what my mother did with them. She sort of took over everything. She was a takeover kind of person. And I recorded a song, (sings) "Here's a picture of my mother when my daddy won her hand!" It was cute. And then, on the other side, (sings) "There will always be America, land of freedom, peace, and love." And in those days, I had a belter's voice. I had a chest voice. (sings) And I had this big voice and 25:00I was this little, tiny person. And then, when I reached the age of ten, I wasn't a boy but my voice changed. (laughs) It wasn't my bar mitzvah or my bat mitzvah. I never had a bat mit-- in those days, they didn't do many bat mitzvahs. Not where I was, anyway. The boys, my cousins, the Yampolskys, they were all bar mitzvahed. It wasn't so much for a girl to be in the religion. It was different then. Now, it's girl and boy and you go to school and you learn and you become bat mitzvahed and you do the whole thing. But not in those days.

SGS: Yeah, definitely, it's changed a lot. I'd love to take it back. So, you 26:00were growing up in Newark, you lived there for a while. Where else have you lived since then?

DC: Hoo, well, here's the thing. I lived in Newark. I left Newark when I was twenty-seven. And what happened was my cousin Paul Yampolsky got mononucleosis. My aunt Anne died very young from a heart condition. And so, he was living with his dad, George Yampolsky, in Hillside, New Jersey and George had to go to work. So, Paul came to my house and my mother took care of him for six weeks. I went to live with my girlfriend, Alice, who was an orphan, and she lived about six blocks away in her own apartment. Nothing fancy. It was wonderful. It was 27:00wonderful to be on my own. My mother didn't know who I was gonna go out with and ask me questions and the whole thing. So, I don't want to get off the track, but there was a point to this. Oh, at that point in my life, I was working. I had graduated high school when I was eighteen and I went to work for Dr. Arnold Rosenthal, our family doctor. And while I was working for him in his medical office, I went to night school and I became a lab technician. And Wednesday mornings, I would do blood tests that they send out to now and they make a big deal out of these blood tests. I did blood counts and I diagnosed my father's 28:00cancer and my girlfriend Janet's father's cancer. I mean, those were serious things that happened to me. But I was working on weekends as a band vocalist at weddings and bar mitzvahs. And I would shake the maracas, (sings) "La última noche que pasé contigo/la llevo guardada como fiel testigo [The last night I spent with you/I cherish as faithful testament]!" So, I would sing in different langua-- and then, when the orchestra would break, I would stand up, while the people were having dinner, by myself on the bandstand, and I would do a little fifteen-minute -- with "Sempre libera" from "La traviata" and maybe "Granada" or something different than dance music. So, here I am, twenty-seven, Paul is in my 29:00house, I'm with Alice. And I think she and I went up to the Catskill Mountains on a vacation. And we went to this hotel and I got up and sang on the bandstand with the band. And the bandleader went crazy and he called his manager, [Myra Kaye?], and he said, "Myra, you got to get up here. You got to hear this singer." She said, "I don't want any more singers." And she's just very brusque, but a very loving person. "I don't want any more singers. I'm not interested." He said, "Myra, you got to hear this singer." So, she came up, drove up to Gibber's -- I think we were -- Gibber's Hotel. (laughs) Remember this. And she 30:00signed me to a contract and she helped me -- well, so before -- that was the summer of 1960. And I said to my mother, "Mom, it's time. I met this woman and she's gonna guide me, protect me. I'm moving into New York --" -- oh, no, excuse me. You can edit this part. (laughs) I was living with Alice and loving it. And I was only six blocks away from my mother. Paul went home; he recovered. And my mother said, "Okay, now you can come home." I said, "Mom, I want to stay with Alice." She said, "It's a shand [shame]! You can't live six blocks away with 31:00somebody else and not be with your family!" In those days, you lived with your family. So, that's when we went on vacation, Alice and I, and I met Myra and I said, "Okay, I'm moving into New York." She said, "That's okay. You can move into New York but you can't live six blocks away. What would the neighbors think?" (laughs) That's the logic, right? Does it look familiar, sound familiar? (laughs) So, Myra Kaye helped me in so many ways. She went with me to find an apartment. I knew nothing. What did I know? I lived on Dewey Street. I sang with a band on weekend-- you know what I mean? I knew nothing. I was so uninformed. I took voice lessons for years. So, she helped me choose a stage wardrobe and she 32:00called -- she introduced me to a man who wrote an act for me, with songs. And I sang songs in Yiddish and Hebrew and Italian and French and did medleys, Spanish. And she was instrumental in calling all the agents that booked the hotels to tell them about her find, Dina Claire. And she got me started. And once I started, once I learned the act and I started working, I was booked constantly because I would sing these cute songs, these pop songs, and then, I would hit an operatic aria with the high notes, and it was such a potent blend. 33:00Nobody was doing that. So, I was very successful for many years. I moved into New York and I moved into an apartment at 29 West Sixty-Fourth Street. And right across the street, right on the corner was Broadway. It was a wonderful location. Very central. And right across the street, they were building Lincoln Center for the Performing Arts. When I moved in, it really didn't exist yet. And I watched it go up. And I lived there for five years. And I did the major things in my career. My first -- do you want me to go into that? My first job was with the Broadway show "Gypsy" with the great Ethel Merman. And after the show closed 34:00on Broadway, I went on tour with Ethel Merman for almost ten months and we played all the major cities in the country and Canada. And of course, everybody wanted to see Merman in "Gypsy." And --

GC: Natalie Wood.

DC: Oh. Right. "Gypsy," also, was with Natalie Wood. Oh, Nat Wood. All right, now you can start from here. (laughter) So, when the show closed, I went on tour and then, when we were in Los Angeles playing in "Gypsy," I heard that they were 35:00going to film the movie "Gypsy" with Rosalind Russell and Natalie Wood. And I thought, Well, I don't have a major part. I'm playing five different roles. I had wonderful costume changes and it was a great experience for a little young person just starting out. But I thought to myself, You know what? If I don't go for the interview, I definitely won't get in the movie. So, I went. And I was interviewed by Mervyn LeRoy, the great director, and he was producing the movie, as well. And he was the nicest man! I mean, I was in my twenties and he was like my grandfather. He was so sweet. And guess what? I had recorded an album, "The 36:00Jewish Heart," and it was gorgeous and it was with a big orchestra. And I brought some with me on tour. Why I would do that, I don't know. But I'm divinely guided. Something said, Take a couple of albums with you in your suitcase. I gave him a copy of "The Jewish Heart" and we talked about our parents and our grandparents. They all came from Russia. And I thought to myself, Isn't this wonderful? And you've got to answer opportunity when it's knocking at your door because you never know what's going to happen. Three weeks later, Myra called. "Guess what? (laughs) You got the part in the movie!" Oh, my goodness. So, I came back to New York from the tour because they weren't ready 37:00for me yet in the movie. And when they were ready, I flew out to Los Angeles and I worked six weeks on my scenes. I'm in two scenes in the movie and I wear glasses. I'm the only one with glasses and dark frames and I'm short and -- well, most of us are. We're supposed to be kids. And so, there are two scenes that I'm in and I actually have lines. When we get to the burlesque theater, we've only played vaudeville. And Madame Rose has tried to make us into performers and she's not having much luck. We're not very talented. And so, we're rehearsing the first scene that I'm in. We're rehearsing in the desert. And we go through this, (sings) Extra, extra, hey, look at the headlines! 38:00Historical news is being made! And then, at the end of it, (sings fanfare) I hold the flag up, upside-down, (laughs) and then I right it, make it right. And then, the next scene, we're driving to the burlesque theater. And we're in the burlesque theater. We don't even know what burlesque is, 'cause Gypsy Rose Lee was a very elegant stripper and she knew how to do it. And she wrote books and she was very unusual. She spoke French. And so, we're in the backstage and we look out at this theater, at the stage from backstage, and all these naked women, you know? And we don't know what's going -- and I said, "It's a real-live theater with a real-live stage! Don't you love it?" (laughs) And then, somebody 39:00says, "Look at that!" And then, we -- "Or that!" And I point to another -- it was just so much fun. So, that was my experience with “Gypsy.” And here it is, how many years? Fifty years later? It came out in 1963 and it's still playing on TV and I still get a residual check. (laughs) Not a very big residual check, but I still get this check for it, the performances that they run on TV. And who would imagine that fifty years later, it's still running strong, and so am I! 40:00(laughs) Oh, my goodness. You just don't know what's going to happen in your life. And you're young yet, so just enjoy it. Take every opportunity because you don't know where it's gonna go. And don't prejudge it, okay? Just believe that you can just jump in and try it. And if you fall flat on your face, don't worry because you can pick yourself up and there'll be another opportunity.

SGS: Wow, that's an incredible story. (laughter) It is. I want to circle back around to the Borscht Belt because there's so much there.

DC: Yes.

SGS: I'd love for you to talk about -- what were your audiences like? What were the spaces you were performing in?

DC: Oh, they were wonderful. I also played the Poconos as well as the Catskills. So, I would have a routine set up for the Jewish hotels and then I would cross 41:00over into the Poconos and put in all my Italian arias and changed the flavor of it. And I would never do Yiddish in a non-Jewish place. And you know, it's a funny thing but as the years went by, the audiences would change. And they didn't get snooty, but they really didn't want to hear the Jewish songs. It was something that changed in the culture. Hebrew was in. (sings) "Hevenu shalom aleichem [Hebrew: We bring peace to you]," and I did (sings) "Sisu et yerushalayim gilu va,/gilu va, kol ohaveiha [Hebrew: Rejoice in Jerusalem and 42:00exult in her,/exult in her, all who love her]," that kind of thing. I did a lot of Hebrew stuff. But gradually, I very rarely did the Yiddish anymore. But I would look in the audience before the show and I would just -- it depended on the place, 'cause if it was the Unity House or one of these garment workers' union places that was up in the Poconos, I would think, "Okay, when was I here last? Which opening number did I do?" And I would just rearrange -- I had alternate opening numbers. And if it was a place that was welcoming to Jews, I would sing -- I had an opening number, (sings) "Shalom, shalom, you'll find shalom, the nicest greeting you know. It means bonjour, salud, and skoal, and 43:00twice as much as hello. It means a million lovely things like peace be yours, welcome home. And even when you say goodbye, you say goodbye with shalom!" And the tempo used to pick up. So, I was doing the Yiddish flavor, but I wasn't singing Yiddish.

SGS: Wow.

DC: Interesting, isn't it?

SGS: Very interesting.

DC: So, I went along with what was in the wind at the time. And I was there at the right time for my kind of voice. Anna Maria Alberghetti was very famous. She sang with the Met. I did not sing with the Met. But people used to say, You're 44:00better than her. But it didn't matter because she sang in the Catskills, also. But she was Italian and she didn't do Yiddish. (laughs) I did. So, I had a good time with it for a while. And at the beginning, it was 1960, ’61, ’62, ’63, it was still there. And then, it started to change. But in 1964, and here's a really good story, I was booked at Radio City Music Hall in the Easter show. I was Alice in "Alice in Easterland." We did three to five shows a day, seven days a week, for five weeks. Close to a million people came to see the Easter show. 45:00And it was very exciting but very scary because there are six thousand seats. At every show, there were six thousand people. (laughs) So, I created a whole speaking career on stage fright and getting rid of it and everything from what I learned at Radio City Music Hall because it was a tremendous challenge. But the following year, I went on a cruise ship. I used to sing on cruise ships. And I met my husband, Don Culff, on the "T.S.S. Olympia," the Greek ship, "Olympia." And would you believe that in 1964, his ship came into New York Harbor and he went to Radio City Music Hall to see a Peter Sellers movie, because they would 46:00show a movie and then the stage show and then a movie and a stage show. So, that's why you did so many stage shows because they were not too long, and then the movie would play. And then, you'd relax and wait for the next one. He was in the audience before he met me and he saw this little -- I mean, I was about thirty-one years old and I looked twelve. (laughs) And I had a ponytail. And I was a really good Alice. And I had this nice voice, well-trained. And at the end of each show, I would climb into the basket of the balloon, strap myself in, and the balloon would rise up to the top of Radio City Music Hall. And I would look down, I'd be waving and they'd be waving up to me and everybody would be 47:00snapping pictures and everything. It was very exciting. But I was always glad to come back down to the stage. I mean, it was really high up. So, here I am, on this ship, and it was three days into the trip. And I met my husband on the third day. And he heard me rehearsing before I met him on the ship. He was managing the gift shops. They were two gift shops. And he's English and very handsome. And then, he was just knockout gorgeous and charming and so sweet and so nice. And so, I met him on that day and he invited me to come to this shop to 48:00see the shop and to see him. And we had our first date that night and we were together ever since, the rest of the cruise. And then, he finished up his assignment on that ship and he gave his notice that he was not coming back. And he came to New York City and we were married six months later.

SGS: Wow.

DC: And then, Gillian was born very soon after that because I was thirty-one and I -- "Let's get started. Let's not waste any time. I want to have a family." And of course, she's my firstborn and then Nancy is the second. And it was the beginning of a new life. But I still was able to do the resort hotels because it was only two hours from where we lived in Livingston, New Jersey.

SGS: Who else do you remember was performing in the circuit those days?

DC: Oh, I have a list in my briefcase there, I meant to give it to you, of seventeen comedians, (laughs) Jewish comedians that I worked with over that five-year per-- well, it was more than five years because after I had Gillian, I waited a year and then went back to singing. And then, same with Nancy, two years later. So, I worked with Red Buttons, Morey Amsterdam. They would book me as the singer in the show and then close with a comic, a comedian, because comedy was king in the Catskills. And then, in the early days, there was an opening act. So, I once worked with a monkey. (laughs) Mr. Chimp, mister 50:00something. And he shot off these pistols and it was all smoke. "And now, Dina Claire!" And I would come out (laughs) into this haze of smoke. All right, but I worked with many Jewish comedians. I worked with Red Buttons, I worked with Jackie Mason, I worked with Henny Youngman and Georgie Jessel and so many more. You name it, I worked with him. And there's a very interesting story. I was working at a small hotel called the Echo. And there was a comedian on by the name of Jack Roy. And I went on first, did my spot, and then I was in the 51:00dressing room, waiting for him to finish. And Jack finished and when he came off, he said, "Boy, am I hungry. How 'bout we go for a bite to eat?" So, I said, "Okay, I'm game. I'm hungry, too." So, we're waiting for our food in this small restaurant in South Fallsburg, and he says, "You know what?" 'Cause he spoke this way. He's very gruff. "You know what, Di? I decided I'm gonna change my name." I said, "Really? To what?" He said, "I decided I'm gonna change my name to Rodney Dangerfield. What do you think?" Well, I thought he was nuts. (laughs) Boy, was I wrong. Right after that, he just went right up. He went on TV and he started making movies and he was the nicest man. He really was. He was very sweet and very nice and very funny. Very funny. So, I was there the night that 52:00Jack became Rodney. (laughs)

SGS: Wow, that's amazing. Are there any other venues that you recall, foods that you ate, memories of the Borscht Belt you'd like to share?

DC: There were certain places that I played over and over and over again. And the crowds were different. And then, in other places, the summer crowds came back and the wives would stay for the entire summer. And the husbands would go back to the city and work and they would come up on weekends. So, it became a problem because there were certain hotels like Young's Gap where I'd look in the 53:00audience and I would say, Oh, I'm gonna do that same opening. (sings) "Obviously, I've got a problem. It plagues me wherever I go. It's not that I'm small. The world's too tall! And there's no way to change it, I know." And I'm looking at this audience, Gosh, they've seen me so many times. But they were very nice and all the comedians repeated. They had routines and they very rarely changed their routines. And so, that's what you got when you booked us. But it worked out. I played Brown's Hotel a lot. That was one of my favorite -- most elegant. And that was where Jerry Lewis got his start. He was a waiter there. And I don't know whether they threw him out or what or something, I don't know. But Mr. and Mrs. Brown ran the thing, the hotel. And Mrs. Brown, I was one of 54:00her favorites. So, she booked me on very special weekends. And I remember one weekend where they had Bob Hope coming on Saturday night. So, she booked me on Friday night with another name comedian so that the audience would have this special weekend of entertainment. So, I felt very good about being booked there when Bob Hope was coming. But, of course, the next night, I was off doing another show, so I never got to see Bob Hope. (laughs)

SGS: You have sung for a number of famous people. I think you mentioned you also sang for Eleanor Roosevelt. Is that right?

DC: Yes. I have a picture here. This is vintage stuff. I was nine or ten years old and here I am onstage. Well, let me show you this one first. I'm at the 55:00microphone. This is at Rutgers University in New Jersey. And I think it was a war bond rally during World War II. I think it was 1943 and my mother made me this jumper and this blouse. And here I am, singing. Now, over here, I'll show you the other side. After I sang, I turned around 'cause she was sitting on the stage. And Rabbi Julius Funk is over here, right here in the middle. He's the man that booked me in the show, in the entertainment for Eleanor Roosevelt. And she was very gracious and she held my hand. I remember that. She's holding my hand in the picture. And after the performance, after the show was over, the 56:00press went into a separate room and I went with them, with my mother, of course. And she came into the room and she came over to me and she bent over, she was very tall, and she took my hand again and she said something very kind to me about, "Don't give up" and "Always keep singing" or something very special. And that was a memory etched in my mind.

[BREAK IN RECORDING]

DC: I did a performance in Washington, DC in 1980. Already married, had my kids, and this was -- I got the call: "Dina, you're gonna be booked in Washington, DC 57:00for the Alfalfa Club." I thought, What is that? What is it, a farm group, the Alfalfa Club? Never heard of it. Turns out that the Alfalfa Club is a very distinguished Washington club that past presidents have been members of. And, well, let me tell you who was there. I flew to Washington with my accompanist (makes whistling sound) and they were too cheap to pay for a band. (laughs) Really! I wondered. It was in the ballroom of, I think, one of the major hotels. And there were six hundred people there. And I think they were all men at that 58:00time. Now it's men and women. And I was introduced by Senator John Glenn. And I have a wonderful picture here of he and I. After the performance, we all went up to a room and we're actually standing there with drinks in our hands. And all the people who had been -- some of the people. There were too many to fit into this one room. And it was very exclusive. And there were six hundred guests and they -- what do you call it? The table, the head table had fifty people at it. Fifty! Five-oh. And the chief justice of the Supreme Court was there and all the 59:00admirals and generals. And President Carter's cabinet was there. George Bush senior was there. It was nine years before he became president. And after this whole thing was over, they lined up and went past me and shook my hand and congratulated me. So, it was a mind-blowing experience. And I remember looking out -- before I performed, I looked out between the curtains and I thought, My goodness, there's what's-his-name, the statesman with the funny voice, the German accent. I wasn't prepared for this. I should have gone over this. I didn't bring the seating arrangement. It's huge! There were fifty people at 60:00twelve tables each. What's -- he's been on TV. Elder statesman. Anyway --

GC: Kissinger?

DC: Kissinger! My daughter remembers everything. (laughs) That's why she's sitting there, to prompt me. Henry Kissinger was there and I remember -- and Don was there. I took Don with me as my photographer. They said, Don't tell anybody. This was in those days. The #MeToo Movement would hate this. Don't tell anybody that he's your husband because –- here’s what I looked like. I was pretty cute! And these people, this Washington, DC, some of them are hot-to-trot. So, I wasn't having anything -- I was there to perform and Don was there as my 61:00photographer. The next day, I did a performance in a townhouse, an old townhouse on I Street or something like that. I sang in the living room and there was a whole bunch of people from -- with their wives in this living room. And I did some songs that I hadn't done the night before. And, boy, it was like they never saw anybody do stuff like that. "Where have you been?" And they're trying to interview me and everything. And there was a kitchen in the back, I'll just tell this one thing, 'cause Don was looking around in the dining room area of the photos of kings and famous people that were members of this Alfalfa Club. And 62:00there was a man making hot toddies in the kitchen. And Don wandered in there and he said to him, "Would you like a hot toddy?" And we said, Sure. We were both in by that time. And it turns out that this man making the hot toddies was in charge of the Atlantic during World War II. He was the -- what's the highest in the Navy? Admiral. Very famous admiral. He's in there making -- and Don is a World War II buff. Coming from England when he was seven years old, he was in the bombing of London. And his father was a fireman putting out fires and 63:00rescuing people from the building, burning buildings. So, that's another story. And here's this -- (laughs) it was a surreal -- the whole thing, the night before and the day, it was a whole surreal experience. It was.

SGS: Wow, that's amazing.

DC: And I was so fortunate to have been chosen to entertain for these people. And they were very, very appreciative. Wonderful audience.

[BREAK IN RECORDING]

DC: During my teenage years, we would go up to the Catskills every summer to Kerhonkson, New York. And my mother and father rented the Sugar Bowl, which was for ice cream and hot dogs and candy for people to come from -- they would walk from the different hotels nearby to have Sadie's sundaes. Sadie is my mother. 64:00And so, I was about fifteen then and they would ask me to sing. I would sing in this Sugar Bowl and eventually, I was booked -- when I started working for the agents, many years later, I would work the Granite Hotel, which was the biggest hotel nearby. But my parents worked their bones off at this Sugar Bowl all summer. And I think they paid three hundred dollars to have braces done on my mouth, which I needed because I had a protruding jaw. And so, they worked to get 65:00the money to pay, 'cause my father didn't make much money. And I remember that I would -- when there were cute boys coming in, I had my little apron on and I was serving, helping serving. Whenever a cute guy came in -- I was wearing a retainer and I would take the retainer out and put it in my pocket. (laughs) Because by then, my teeth looked pretty nice.

SGS: Oh, that's great. (laughter) Wow. I'm glad you circled back, thank you.

DC: Yeah.

SGS: Let's move ahead a little bit. I understand you're a parent and a grandparent, too, is that right?

DC: Yes. Gillian has two wonderful sons, Kieran and Savan. And Kieran has graduated from Bennington College. And we were touring at Bennington yesterday. 66:00And he's in Philadelphia right now, working and living. And Savan, let me finish with Savan, he's up in Washington state at a college -- on the water. Anyway, I forgot the name of it. Beautiful area. And they were raised in Hawaii because when Kieran was six months old, Gillian and Yosh, her husband, decided that they would move to Hawaii. So, they were raised in Hawaii. His parents had a home there. They were also teachers in Chicago. So, Yosh was raised in Chicago and the Big Island. And Gillian and Yosh used to go there every Christmas. And then, 67:00when they got back to Chicago, they would cry. (laughs) So, they decided that they would move there. Of course, it was very difficult because I knew I wouldn't see them very much. And Kieran was six months when they left. But now, we're sort of making up and they have visited us. We live now in Anderson, South Carolina, which is right outside of Greenville, South Carolina. And we moved there because our other daughter, Nancy, who's married to David Pitts -- they have two children: Noah, who is going to graduate high school soon, and Lily, who is thirteen. So, they made various moves, for whatever reason, business, et cetera, in the area. They found their way to Asheville and then they had a whole 68:00lifestyle change, and now in Sedona, Arizona. So, hopefully, we'll visit there sometime. (laughs) I don't know. But we're all on the move, doing our own thing. And Gillian is now in Vermont, living in Vermont, and having a new experience with her life. But she was a teacher for ten years on the Big Island, at high school level, and when she decided that she wanted to leave both the marriage and her life and the boys were on their own, they created an award called the 69:00Gillian Culff --

GC: Leadership.

DC: -- Leadership Award. It's a plaque that they award to a student in every senior graduating class. She really made her mark there. So, now she's a writer and an editor and she works from her computer and she's traveled all over Europe. And now, she's settled in Vermont. She loves it there. And we're here because we came to visit her and some of our English cousins that Don hasn't seen for so many years and, likewise, myself. So, we spent the last few days in Vermont. And now, we decided to do this interview on our way to the airport on 70:00our way home. Don and I will be leaving shortly. So, we're managing to do interesting things and meaningful things and still see family. And they came to visit us last year. And I've had some illnesses and I've come out of them and I've survived. I am a survivor! (laughs) And life has its ups and downs. And I'm not singing anymore, but I'm a motivational speaker. And I teach people at all levels how to get over stage fright, how to present themselves, how to speak to an audience and not fall apart when they're facing an audience. And I wrote a 71:00book about it. And so, I've been very busy doing that aspect of my career because I'm drawing upon the experiences that I had at Radio City Music Hall and all those Broadway -- and the Catskills and all those audiences and learning how to communicate with them and give them a good experience while doing my thing to the highest level that I could. So, I will be busy till the day I die. I'm eighty-five now, but I'm never gonna stop as long as my brain is intact and my mind is good. (laughs)

SGS: Wow. It sounds like you have an amazing family. I mean, we just met and 72:00you've said so many wonderful things about them. Thinking about generations -- and Jewish life is a really interesting practice, obviously, from where you've come from with your grandparents and then your parents, how you are, what are some values that you hope to impart upon your children and grandchildren, things that you hope they'll take from you and your life?

DC: Well, I'm always amazed at how loving and kind my daughters are and how intelligent they are. I like to take some credit for that. (laughs) And my husband is also very loving and kind and highly intelligent. I think in some areas, he's more intelligent than I am. His memory is certainly more -- and I think that what I seem to have imparted on them is this wanting to try to do 73:00whatever they want to do. At age eighty-five, my wanting days are over. I've had the chance to do it. I mean, Don used to drive, I used to take them with me up to the Catskills when they were little pitsls [small children]. And I used to take them out onstage and give them that feeling. And they're both hams. They both can get up and talk and they can talk like I talk. They get triggered and it's a never-ending quality. I like to think that I'm having -- I mean, when I 74:00was very ill recently and the diagnosis was completely -- it was cancer but the diagnosis has been completely reversed with a small pill, a hormone pill that works expressly with this kind of breast cancer that I had. (sighs) And a miracle happened. And it was metastasized and they thought that this was the end and they were gonna lose me. And then, this little pill went in and cleaned out all the cancer. So, they were so loving while I was going through this and are still -- it's still that way. And still caring. And I like to think that I had 75:00something to do with that attitude of givingness, which they certainly have.

SGS: As we move towards the end of the interview and into concluding things, I just have a couple more things I'd like to ask. And then, if there's anything I've forgotten that you'd like to talk about, we can definitely loop back around.

DC: Okay.

SGS: So, we like to ask if folks have a favorite Yiddish word or phrase that they can think of. And for you, since you're a singer, I'm wondering if there's a favorite Yiddish song that you’d like to perform. I know we have some excerpts, but it's really special to hear you sing and I'd love to have it on the record.

DC: Well, I think -- (sighs) well, I love "Sha, shtil! Der rebe geyt" -- because that's a winner. [BREAK IN RECORDING] "Rozhinkes mit mandlen [Raisins and almonds]" was always a big favorite. And I ended on a very unseemly high 76:00note: (sings) "Rozhinkes mit mandlen,/shlof zhe, yidele, shlof [Raisins and almonds,/sleep, little one, sleep?]." I started too high. (sings wordlessly) And I used to be able to -- (sings high note) and I used to go all the way up and hold that note. Oh, I used to love to do that. These treatments that I've had have interfered with the very high notes, but the rest of the voice is pretty good. I listened to "The Jewish Heart" recently and there's a song on there that brings me to tears and gives me chills every time I sing it. And when I listen to it, I had the same effect. And it's "Eyli, eyli [Hebrew: My God, my God]." And that's the cry of the Jewish people and what they've been through. And "in 77:00fayer un flam, hotst men undz gebrent [in fire and flame, you’ve burned us]," the terrible things that have gone on. But it's so thril-- (sings) "Eyli, eyli, lomo [Hebrew: My God, my God, why] atov shani (sic) --" I'm messing up the words. (Sings wordlessly) -- by the way, I never sang this onstage because it was so powerful. I didn't want to depress the audience. People did request it 78:00and I said, "No, it's just too powerful. I really don't want to do it, but thank you for requesting it." It's probably one of the greatest songs ever written about the Jewish people. And I would call that my best, my best choice. I was at least five times better vocally. Vocally. My voice was -- well, you hear it because this was recorded in 1961, ’62, or even -- maybe 1960. I don't know. I don't remember. But this was the Dina Claire that made it in the Catskills. I mean, people just -- they used to come up to me and say, Your voice does 79:00something to me. You've got something in your voice that just takes my heart, you know what I mean? And you'll hear it in this. When I heard this on my computer -- because Gillian found it at this University of Pennsylvania, on the computer. When I heard it, I sat there in my office and I bawled. And my husband came in and he started to cry because he's a non-Jew but he's so Jewish. (laughs) He loves the Jewish songs and he was at all these performances.

SGS: Thank you so much. So, is there anything else you'd like to state before we wrap up?

DC: During the ’60s, when I was living in New York and performing -- and that's when I recorded "The Jewish Heart" album -- I did performances at Carnegie Hall. 80:00And they were very unique because this one is called, "Hello, Solly," (laughs) a takeoff, of course, on "Hello, Dolly." And Mickey Katz is Joel Grey's father. And Joel Grey, at the time, was a teenager. And he came to the rehearsals and he was sitting in the -- I could picture him so clearly. And he was sitting there and I did a lot of work with Mickey Katz because he had a band and he was the most famous Yiddish bandleader of the time. And Larry Best was the comedian. He was well known. He was one of those on my list. And Michael Rosenberg, he was called Getsl. People might remember him. And Vivian Lloyd was a wonderful singer. Stan Porter was a wonderful singer. And I did a twenty-minute spot on my 81:00own. Something very significant happened during that show. I had just had Gillian and that'll give you an idea of how long ago it was. (laughs) And -- she's sitting right here, okay? I hit a high note. Fortunately, it was my last song or just about the ending of "Sempre libera," my big aria, and my zipper broke on the back of my dress. So fortunately, it was a sleeveless dress so it sort of stayed in place. And I said, "That's what happens when you have a baby. Nothing fits." And it got a big laugh. (laughs) So, that was -- that, Carnegie Hall. And then, there was another show that I did at Carnegie Hall called 82:00"Echoes of Israel: Fifteenth Anniversary Independence Day Celebration." So, it was the commemoration of the establishment of the State of Israel. And they had the Sabra dancers, special guest artist Dina Claire, The Four Ayalons. They were very, very popular then and they did a lot of work in the Catskills and we worked together. So, it was a great performance and it was at Carnegie Hall. And so, I got to appear for many shows that we did with these two revues at Carnegie Hall, and it was very meaningful. And a lot of famous Jewish people came to see these shows because you couldn't get them too often in the ’60s, and especially 83:00at Carnegie Hall. So, it was my pleasure to step out on that very famous stage and be singing Yiddish and English and Hebrew and having the audience so appreciative at that time of my life and my career.

[BREAK IN RECORDING]

DC: The last part of "Eyli, eyli," I do remember. (sings) "Sh’ma yisrael, adonai eloheynu, adonai echad [Hebrew: Hear, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One]!"

SGS: Ooh! (laughter)

[BREAK IN RECORDING]

SGS: Thank you so much. It's been really wonderful.

DC: My pleasure. I've enjoyed it so tremendously.

SGS: Amazing.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

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