Keywords:"Poyln, A Gilgul"; "The Magid Chronicles"; Benjamin Fox-Rosen; Benjy Fox-Rosen; ethnographers; ethnography; Germany; Israel; Jewish culture; Joel Rubin; Josh Horowitz; Joshua Horowitz; Merlin Shepherd; music; Oskar Kolberg; performing; Polina Shepherd; Safed Klezmer Festival; Safed, Israel; Sofia Magid; Stefan Puchalski; Stu Brotman; Stuart Brotman; touring; Tzfat, Israel
NINA PICK: This is Nina Pick, and today's date is July 18th, 2019. I am here at
Yiddish Summer Weimar in Weimar, Germany, with Cookie Segelstein, and we aregoing to record an interview as part of the Yiddish Book Center's Wexler OralHistory Project. Cookie, do I have your permission to record this interview?
COOKIE SEGELSTEIN: Yes, you do.
NP: Thank you. So to start off, could you tell me briefly what you know about
your family background?
CS: Well, I know quite a bit, because I'm kind of the one that keeps track of
our family history. Both my parents are Holocaust survivors. My mother comesfrom the town of Munkatch, or Mukachevo, which was a very big center for Jewish 1:00thought. It was also -- had quite a population of Jews, possibly half the city.At the time of the late 1930s, maybe twenty-five thousand people were Jewish.This is what I've heard from my family. The famous Munkatch Rebbe comes fromthere, Rabbi Shapira. And my father comes from the town of Nizhniye Veretski,and he lived with his grandparents. And his grandfather was a disciple of thisrabbi. So, the Segelstein side of my family comes from that region, which issub-Carpathian Ruthenia. He said "Rutenia." It was very close to the border ofPoland, Hungary. There were lots of ethnic Germans, Russians, Ukrainians,Hungarians, Czechs. So he spoke many languages, my father did. And he used to 2:00tell me stories about that area. He told me stories about his parents, butmostly of his grandparents, because he was sent to live with them as a child.And there was a tradition that the first born will be sent to live to learnTorah with the grandfather. But I know the first child died in infancy, that wasborn to his parents, and so he was the first surviving child of five brothers,three of whom survived after the war. I now know that that family had been inthat region, at least as far as we know, to the early 1800s. There were severalsiblings. Some of them went off to Romania, so there's a branch of family that Ihave just recently discovered, some of who live in Paris, some of who live inToronto, from that branch of family. My mother's family -- I don't have as much 3:00information about her family. She was younger when the war broke out. She wasborn in 1928. My father was born in '21. And he passed away in 2000. She's stillalive. So we've tried to find information out about her. And I was asked to playat a sub-Carpathian Ruthenian Holocaust survivor memorial in LA, and somehowmentioned, "Gosh, I'd really like to find information about my mother." Wedidn't even know her birthdate. She and her sister survived Auschwitz andReichenbach, a labor camp, and they were liberated May 8th, and they decided tochoose May 10th as their birthday. But we learned this when she turnedeighty-five, and she said, "I really would like to know when I was born." And mysister and brother and I were, like, What? And then we realized she didn't knowher birthdate, and as she said, they just -- it wasn't important in Jewish life 4:00to know the -- you know, they wouldn't even say the birthday. They would saytill 120, because they were superstitious. They wouldn't say their child'sbirthday. So when I mentioned -- I just said something to the organizer of thismemorial, and he said, "I got a guy in the Ukraine." So I contacted this guy.Western Union sent him -- I sent him 150 bucks per family. He went into therecords in Uzhhorod, which is where they're kept, and took pictures with hiscellphone of the registration, where they registered births. So I got mymother's birthdate, my father's birthdate. He also found, in the censuses, backto the early 1800s, mostly about my father. So that was the first time I reallygot past, say, 1920s of history of my family. But both families were from that 5:00region for as far back as either there are records or as anybody remembers. So Iguess I know, for survivors' families, I know quite a bit. But I've never been there.
NP: And how did they end up coming to the US?
CS: Well, after the war, they were in a series of DP camps, and since my mother
and her sister went through everything together -- her sister was a littleyounger -- and they were going to go to Palestine on one of those, basically,midnight trains or midnight ships. And my mother decided not to. She went toanother place, and they separated, thinking they would get back together. Myfather subsequently had found out that one brother had survived. That brotherwas already in America. He was young and somehow was sponsored to come through. 6:00So they met at a DP camp, and my father wrote to his brother and the relativesin the United States, and they sent papers for him to come to the United States.But he wrote back, "I'm married now." So that took about another two years toget papers for my parents to be sponsored by the Segelsteins in the States, inNew York. And they were sent across in a private ship, the "Sobieski." And sothey came over in 1948.
NP: And where and when were you born?
CS: Well, I was born in 1958 in Kansas City. So my father had been apprenticed
back in Veretski as a tailor. And so he started working for a tailor inBrooklyn, and meantime going to school to get a certificate in patternmaking andclothing design, maybe in what became the Fashion Institute or the New YorkInstitute of Design. I'm not sure, but it was the predecessor of one of those. 7:00And the tailor he was working for had a son who was also a patternmaker inKansas City, where they had a small garment industry. So he said, "You know,they're looking for a designer in Kansas City." So he went to check it out, andfound that there were quite a few survivors in Kansas City, even somebody theyhad known in one of the DP camps. And so he took that job, and they moved there.My brother was born in 1949 in New York, and they moved to Kansas City in '54. Iwas born in '58. My sister was born in '59. And we were insulated into thesurvivor community there, so there was really not much English in the house tillI was maybe, I don't know, four or five. And then the Jewish Federation, or someJewish organization, sent English teachers to houses in Kansas City. You know, 8:00'cause Kansas City is the northern seam of the Bible Belt, so these refugeesthat came in really outed the assimilated Jews there. So my feeling is, theywere, like, We've got to teach these guys English. So I remember this womancoming to the house and saying, "Only English now," which is so tragic, becauseHungarian and Yiddish were our household languages. We lost it, because theytried so hard. But I remember my mother still speaking to me in Hungarian andYiddish, and I would answer in English. But I've lost -- I mean, I canunderstand Yiddish, but I don't speak it. So my father had this job, and mysister was born in '59. So we grew up, an insulated community inside, cowboycountry on the outside.
NP: And was your family observant at this point?
CS: They were observant, very observant. They were Orthodox until I was probably
-- well, through my brother's bar mitzvah. So we kept kosher -- at my brother's 9:00insistence. He was young, and he wanted to do it. And so we kept kosher untilprobably I was about, maybe, eight. My father was really not -- he was -- Idon't know whether he believed in God. He was angry at God. And my mother wastraditionally observant. But then we observed every holiday, but they didn'tkeep kosher after. My father ate bacon every Sunday, even on -- I remember YomKippur was one Sunday, and my mother came in and was cursing in Ukrainian,Hungarian, Ruthenian, you know. And, "On your grandmother's grave!" He said,"It's Sunday. I always eat bacon on Sunday." So he just wasn't observant at all, yeah.
NP: And did your family have Yiddish publications in the home?
CS: You know, I don't remember Yiddish publications in the home. They spoke
10:00Yiddish. They spoke Yiddish and Hungarian. Those were their two languages. Westarted to understand, you know, as we came back as teenagers. Of course, weunderstood the Yiddish, so they'd lapse into Hungarian sometimes. But they hadmore, I would say -- they were more interested in reading English. So my father,if we had a textbook, he would read it. Then he would test us. You know, when Iwas in music school, (speaking with a Yiddish accent) "When did Haydn die?" I'dget a phone call. No, "Hello, how are you?" "When did Haydn die?" I said, "Notsoon enough." I mean, I was kidding. I love Haydn. But he was always testing. Mybrother got a law degree, so he would call. Then my brother stopped being alawyer and became a physicist. My father wasn't able to really test him on thephysics books. (Laughter) Yeah. So I don't remember Yiddish publications. They 11:00had some records that I don't remember what, but I remember hearing them laugh.I think they must have been some kind of Yiddish humor records. But I don'tremember. And they read Yiddish -- my father read it in the Hebrew alphabet. Mymother didn't. My mother read it in Latin letters. So --
NP: And was there a particular political atmosphere in your home?
CS: Pretty much Left. A lot of the family were socialists. And they -- yeah,
they were pretty much Left-wing, I would say. I just remember when Nixon wasgoing through the -- when the Watergate things were happening, my father wasyelling at the television. And yeah, they were definitely Left-wing.
NP: And what was their perspective on the State of Israel?
CS: Very protective. They were never critical of Israel. And my father -- so
12:00actually, in about the late '50s, they found that my father had another brotherthat had survived who was living in Be'er Sheva. And so, they planned a reunion,and they all came to Kansas City. The three brothers got together, for the firsttime since the war, in 1963. So he had a brother there. My mother's sister wasliving there. She just died a couple of weeks ago, actually, the sister. So mymother went to Israel. We went when I was ten, in 1968, and my mother went aboutevery other year to Israel. So we -- yeah. It was a love of Israel in our house,yeah. Mm-hm.
NP: And when you were a child, were there aspects of Jewish culture that were
particularly meaningful to you?
CS: The thing that I really -- well, I loved the holidays. I always loved the
holidays. Even when I knew it made me an outsider to the neighborhood, to the 13:00neighbors. And I loved the music. My father really sang to me a lot, which ispart of the reason, probably, that I got into Jewish music, because he sang alot of the melodies that we play now. And it was kind of, like, I guess, becausewhen he would sing, it was when he was happy. And he was not happy very much. Hewas a very depressed man. And when he would teach me something, he would be soinsistent, and I wanted to get it so right. And then as I got older, it was,like, Oh, God. You know, the people would come over for dinner, and I would beexpected to come out and play. They'd cry, and that sucked. You know? But Ireally loved that part. And I loved the -- the refugees were like a -- not a 14:00single -- well, they were like a single-cell organism. They went everywheretogether. They were always at our house. We were at their house. And I thinkthat it felt like this big family, because they didn't have families. So if Icame home from college, they all came to pick me up, in two cars. I got acomment. "I don't like your hair." "You're fat." "You're too skinny." "Where didyou get those glasses?" "You look --" you know. So I would go down, andeverybody would comment. And then when we were driving home, they'd say, Oh,wait, we have to pull over. [Hanke?] is behind us. I don't think she -- it was aconvoy everywhere. So I really, kind of, you know -- thinking back, I love that.And I also loved the stories of Europe, where my -- you know, Back home, theywould say. My mother didn't talk about it as much, you know, the good things 15:00about back home. I mean, she was just sixteen or under sixteen, I think, whenshe was -- you know, the Hungarian Jews were taken in '44, in the spring, so shewas just sixteen. My father was older. He was in labor camps when he was alreadytwenty-one. So, he had more memories that he could draw up. And that was, to me,to -- I also went skiing every winter with my father. Drove across Kansas toColorado. That's when he would tell me stories the whole time, and sing. And sothat, for me, was, like, you know. When he died, I went, Oh, shoot. No morestories. You know?
NP: So there's been a lot of research into the effects of the Holocaust on the
descendants of survivors. How has it affected you?
CS: Well. You know, I've thought about this a lot, because I have two children.
And, you know, I know anxiety definitely gets passed down in future -- I've seen 16:00it. My brother and sister and I have lots of similarities. One, no regard formoney. We're terrible with money. I'm not in debt, but it's really hard for meto save money, because I think at any minute, who knows what could happen? So Ihave to set it up so my bank withdraws money monthly, or else I would just say,Well, as long as I'm not in debt, I'm fine. Okay, I'm going to buy that. Youknow? That's one thing. The other thing is, it takes me a long time to trustpeople. I'm very friendly to everybody, but it just takes me a really long time.And I have an abandonment fear. I think if, you know -- even in my marriage,which -- I love my husband. I'm married to Josh Horowitz, and we have awonderful relationship. But it took me a long time to realize, if he's a half an 17:00hour late -- which he hardly ever is -- it doesn't mean he's gone. So we allhave that, the abandonment fear. And I guess also, when I was younger, I used tofeel like I had to hold down the fort at home. Our parents were so shatteredthat if something was wrong with me, if something happened to me, I couldn'ttell them, because it would upset them too much. So if we look at pictures ofourselves when we were younger, we're all -- it's the worried smile, like,Everything's fine. Everything's fine. So that was part of, I think, the effects.As far as -- we're all three very outspoken. If we don't like something orsomeone, we just say it. I don't know whether that's survivor stuff. That justmight be us. But I think the abandonment thing. You know, I'm, by nature, I 18:00mean, just by birth, I am a happy person. And I wake up happy. And then I startthinking of things that could happen. I know some of our friends that were alsokids of survivors are not risk-takers. I was a big risk-taker. I used to teachhorseback riding. I used to break and train horses. I hitchhiked. You know, wedid all that. But before I would even put my foot in a stirrup to get on ahorse, I'd have this fear of all -- and visualize every possible bone that couldbreak, everything that could happen. But I just said, I'm just getting on thehorse. You know? So I think, also, I'm very good in emergencies, not so goodwhen nothing bad is happening. So I think that's pretty much it.
NP: And looking back on your childhood, what values do you think your parents
CS: Definitely family. It used to be we were told, They're the only ones you can
trust. I don't feel that way, but that's what we were told. So family. I stillcall my mother almost every day. I text or speak to my sister and brotherseveral times a week. My first husband used to call it the Segelstein huddle."YouL) But also, it's interesting, because they -- my mother -- I don't know ifshe'll see this, but -- she was a thief. I mean, a big thief. Not like -- youknow, she wouldn't go to somebody's house. If she was in a hotel, forget it.Everything went in her suitcase. "They got more," she said. "Just take thebedspread. You don't have anything in your house. Take the bedspread." (Laughs)You know, she was like that. We had to teach ourselves, no, you can't just go 20:00into the grocery store and start eating out of the produce. She said, "If youstand where the two mirrors meet, they can't see you. You could eat a wholebanana." You know? But I think, really, loyalty to your family and to yourchosen family, which they had with the other survivors.
NP: So we've been talking about your background, and I'd like to turn now to a
discussion of how you got to where you are today. So could you tell me a bitabout your journey to becoming a musician?
CS: Well, when I was in -- I was handed a violin at five, and expected to play,
because my father saw that with the little Fisher-Price xylophone, I was able topick out a tune. So I started taking lessons with another survivor's kid, whowas a violinist, and then would play in the orchestras at school. But I wantedto be a vet, veterinarian. But then I hit chemistry in tenth grade, and I just 21:00-- it freaked me out. I couldn't do it. Violin was easy for me. And then Iswitched to viola in high school. And I liked it. I liked the harmony aspect ofit. I liked the calmness of the viola players. And I decided to major in that.So I went to university in Kansas City, at the University of Missouri. Got abachelor's. Went to Yale, got a master's. Got in the New Haven symphony, and wasa classical musician. And the klezmer revival was starting to happen. And I hadalways played -- in Kansas City, there were a lot of Serbians, a lot ofYugoslavs there, so I had played in these folk dance orchestras, just 'cause Ilike those modes. But I never was interested in coming back to the music I wasforced to play as a kid. So then I got pregnant with my first kid. And I gotpregnant in eighty -- let's see. She was born in '88, so I basically gotpregnant at the beginning of '88, 1988. And I started thinking about my history, 22:00my family history, and realizing she was going to have to learn about theHolocaust. I didn't know it was a girl, but my kid or kids were going to have tolearn about the bad stuff. So I started kind of playing with these guys in NewHaven that had gone to KlezKamp, and, you know, some of the melodies werefamiliar. And then I started getting interested in that music again. It was alittle different approach, a different way of playing than I grew up playing. SoI joined a synagogue in Chester, Connecticut, which is not far from Middletown,a little, tiny town. And they said, We want to have a klezmer band here at thissynagogue. Would you lead it? We'll send you to KlezKamp. So they paid for me togo to KlezKamp. I think it was '92. And I went there, and I was blown away,because here were five hundred people over Christmas that didn't have to deal 23:00with Christmas trees -- even though I love Christmas trees -- and I tookclasses, and I started jamming with people. And then I remember that next year,I came back to Kansas City, and I said to my father, "You know the song 'Sha[Quiet]' that you taught me? I have the right way to play it." So I played itfor him with all the ornaments, and all the trills. And he goes, (speaking witha Yiddish accent) "Oy, God, what's that noise?" He said, "What is that, Greek?"He didn't recognize it. And I got this epiphany that, Oh, so what you forced meto play was what these people are trying to learn how to play. And I thought,Oh, maybe it's just a different region. Huh. You know, I mean, I, kind of,hadn't thought about it that way. And so I went back the next year to KlezKamp. 24:00And then the third year, I started teaching. So '95, I started teaching atKlezKamp. And I decided, Well, I'm just going to play the way that I grew upplaying, because it's just a different style. So I started jamming with Henryand the guys in Kapelye. And then I started getting work. And then there was awoman in the New Haven Symphony, Adrianne Greenbaum, who I don't know if youknow her. She's a flute player. And she started researching klezmer flute. Well,her kid was having a bar mitzvah, so she reached over to me in the symphony. Iwas sitting second chair viola. She was flute. She taps me on the shoulder withher flute. She goes, "I hear you play klezmer." And I go, "Yeah." She goes,"Want a job?" I said, "Sure." So we played for her kid's bar mitzvah. And then Istarted working with her. She became a contractor, and we started doing barmitzvahs and stuff. And it was good money back in the mid-'90s. And so, I wasmaking a living as a playing musician, classical as well as starting to do 25:00Jewish. Started to play with Kapelye more, with Ken Maltz and those guys.Started to play with Henry Sapoznik. Started subbing in for KlezmerConservatory. Still living in the New Haven area, raising two kids. I had, bythis time, two kids. And then I'm teaching at KlezKamp. So I was really makingprobably more playing Jewish music than I was -- because I could come in and dostrolling violin. I could play the society stuff. I could play the freylekhs[cheerful traditional tunes]. And then I could sit down and play a stringquartet. So, I started getting a lot of -- music was good. You know, the musicbusiness was good then. And then in 2002 -- or 2000 -- KlezKamp, 2001. There wasa student at KlezKamp who said, "I want to bring you to Albuquerque to teach ata week-long workshop, and I'm going to ask Josh Horowitz to come." So he and I-- I said, "Great." You know, people make all kinds of plans at KlezKamp, and 26:00then they forget. Everybody gets romantic at a festival. You know? We startedtalking on the phone to try to find repertoire together, because we wereexpected to put on a concert. And so, we met in Albuquerque, and we played this-- I mean, we, you know, met. We were trying to discuss what we were going toteach. And we played this concert where we were totally unprepared, but it wasso much fun. He said, "You know, you should really make a record." And I said,"Well, I would do it with you." And so he introduced me to Stu Brotman thatyear. And so, we formed Veretski Pass and made a record in 2003. And I felt likeI found my people to play with. You know? And then, of course, Josh and Istarted having a relationship, and we've been together since -- you know,seventeen years now. But with them, it was so free. We were so -- it was likethis dream come true. Because, you know, you play -- a musician plays with 27:00everybody. We call it a paycheck gig. You play -- wherever there's a gig, youplay. But when you find a group of people that you know you can create thingswith, there's just this kind of complete respect. Nobody ever says, Why did youdo it that way? Everybody gets to try what they want to try. So that reallybecame my main focus, that group, back in about, I'd say -- we started touringin Germany in 2004. My kids were old enough -- I really wanted to be home withthem, so I was home during the day, and my rehearsals were nights and weekends.But I was able to -- then they were already teenagers, so I could leave for aweek or so. And then, so Veretski Pass -- I was still playing with Henry. Istill play with Henry. I joined Budowitz. So the European style, which is what Igrew up with, at that point, became my main focus.
NP: And have you had any important mentors or teachers in Jewish music?
CS: Well, you know, it's interesting. I feel -- well, of course, my father was
first and foremost. Everybody I play with, I always learn something from. Frommy husband, Josh, deeply learned a lot from him. Stu Brotman, learned a ton ofstuff from Stu. Now we play with Joel, who to me -- I mean, I remember listeningto -- I'm interrupting myself. Oh, well. In the '90s, I would take my kids tothe beach at Misquamicut in Rhode Island, with one eye open, making sure theywon't drown, and listening to the "Bessarabian Symphony," the record made byJosh and Joel Rubin. And I thought, This is the most beautiful playing I haveever heard in my friggin' life. I couldn't believe it. And I thought, I reallywant to play with these guys at some point. And so, when we made the Polish 29:00recording, and I think we recorded it in 2015, maybe, I was sitting there in aroom with my husband, with Stu, and Joel. And I got really teary, because I'velearned from every -- each of those, I would say. Pete Sokolow at KlezKamp, whois an icon, interesting icon. I've learned a lot of from him. He knows everyHasidic song. He knows every Fats Waller tune. A true musician. So anybody -- Iwas lucky enough to play with Howie Leess, with Sid Beckerman, with Paul Pincus-- uh, I don't know if I played with Paul Pincus. Some of the old New York guys,I was able to play gigs with them. Delicious, really. How are we doing? We're --oh, yeah. We'll go, like, five more minutes or so, yeah.
NP: (UNCLEAR) Sounds good. And at the moment, what questions or what projects
CS: This new one we just did with Joel, the Magid project, we got -- when we
finished "Poyln," the Polish project, which was greatly helped by my friendStefan Puchalski -- Puchalski, however he says it at the moment -- who is anAmerican-born musician who did a lot of field work in Poland. And there's thisresurgence of the lost Jewish music of fill-in-the-blank, you know? So there aregroups who play this music that was collected by Oskar Kolberg throughoutPoland. And we took some of what he called Jewish tunes, and we made them. We,you know, worked with them, and then we played some rural Polish stuff, and thena lot of Hasidic Polish tunes. And we made a project out of that. We had so muchfun that we decided we needed to do another project. So sitting on the trainfrom Vienna to someplace else with Joel and Stu and Josh, we said, We should 31:00really do something else. And then I think Joel said, "You know, we could do theMagid stuff." 'Cause he had a USB stick with the six hundred digitizedrecordings that the folks at Potsdam University did of these wax cylinder fieldrecordings that she did in the 1920s. And I said, "Okay." And we startedlistening to them. And some of them were so simple that I was, like, Ugh, howare we going to get inspired to do this? But Josh sat down and startedtranscribing stuff. And he'd say, "You know, there's a really beautiful one. Atleast four measures are really beautiful, and we can work around that." So lastnight was the first time we played it. I mean, our trio had played it a fewtimes in the Berkeley area, but this was the first time we played it since therecording with all four of us, except, you know, Stu wasn't there. It was withBenjy, who did a fabulous job. So I'm still really excited about that project.So we don't have anything yet in the -- what do you call it, the coffer? The 32:00hopper? The something that ends with E-R? I don't know. But that's still verynew. So we're doing a bunch of touring in the States with that coming up in thefall. You know, we would like to do something else. Stu is getting older. He'salmost seventy-seven. We'd like to get one more project under his belt if wecan, but we'll see. Yeah.
NP: You've traveled all over the world as a performing musician. What has been
the reception to your work in various countries you've been to?
CS: You know, Germany is very receptive. We really -- it's a very interesting
thing with the history, and the way the grandchildren and children are sointerested in Jewish culture and music. And every place we've gone has beenreally welcoming. One interesting thing, though, in Israel. I did the Safed 33:00Festival two years, three years ago. The sensibility of klezmer music at thatfestival was fast, faster, faster. And more like "Fiddler on the Roof" meets"Shalom aleichem [Hebrew: Peace be upon you]" -- I mean the song, not the guy.And it felt to me like it had not reached the level of introspection andresearch that it is here or in the States with the musicians. We were told, Youhave to play fast. The audience likes fast. So I did this with Polina and MerlinShepherd, and Merlin said, "We're going to play the slowest, deepest 'Gasn nign[Street tune].'" You know? And we did. We were, like, No, we're not going to dothat. So it felt like in Israel, they're not quite at the point of -- they haveso much other influences of Jewish music -- and I'm generalizing, and I'm sureI'm leaving out some really wonderful work done. But that's the only place that 34:00I've felt the organizers and audience didn't seem so receptive to the type ofmusic that we play. So --
NP: And what, if any, is the role of Yiddish language in your work?
CS: Well, we insist that our students listen to Yiddish speaking, because the
inflections are very similar to the music. So, because music is identified withthe voice, and the gestures, the Yiddish humor, (puts up both hands in a shruggesture) this, the famous vants [bedbug] -- the bedbug joke, which is the bestjoke in the world. You know that joke? It's such a long joke. This guy hasbedbugs. So, think of a shaggy dog. He has to go to this rabbi, says, "Try thisspell. Go fast for thirty days. You have to pray. You can't shave. You have todo this." He finally goes to the master rabbi, and he's done all the things hehas to do. And the rabbi says, "Come in." He takes out this big book, and he 35:00opens it up, and he pulls out a velvet bag, and he opens it up, and he says,"Okay. You take this powder. You open the bedbug's mouth. You put it in. Youhold it closed. You recite the Hebrew alphabet. You say this prayer. You say the"Shema" seven times. And then that kills the bedbug." And the man says, "Well,sir, esteemed rabbi, esteemed teacher, great teacher, if I've already got thebedbug in my hand, can't I just squeeze and it'll kill him?" And the rabbi says,(shrugs) "That works, too." That gesture itself is so common in Jewish music,the drop-off of tone, the way that you approach a note. So I really insist,number one, that especially non-Jewish students sit in on at least aConservative synagogue service, so they hear the idea of chaos, and also thenhear a Yiddish speaker with the intonations of the speaking. So --
NP: And how would you describe your relationship with Yiddish today?
CS: I'm sorry I didn't keep it up. You know, I'm very sorry I didn't keep it up.
So I have my mother speak to me in Yiddish. And, you know, that's -- I love it.I really -- if I were younger, and I had more time, I would try to relearn it. Iprobably could, but I work a lot. So --
NP: And what do you see as the future of the Yiddish language?
CS: You guys. Your generation and younger. I think organizations that promote
Yiddish speaking in the family. And it's young people that have to find aninterest in their heritage, definitely.
NP: And what do you imagine will be the future of klezmer?
CS: This. I mean, I have these fourteen-year-olds from Italy. It's also the
37:00young people. I think it's really -- it's doing what a musical -- you know, anethnic music should do. It migrates, and it changes. It stopped at theHolocaust, you know, so there was this change of influences from all over. Whenthe Silk Road opened, you get Turkish and Greek, and probably Indian influences.And then it stopped. So, I feel like even in the resurgence, in the revival, nowit's starting to do that. It's changing. You get all kinds of differentelements. Some people are upset about that, because it loses its originalflavor. But there's no such thing as original. Things are always moving. So, Ithink it's wonderful. And again, it's young people. So --
NP: So, we're nearing the end of our time here, and you have to go teach.
CS: Yes. Yes.
NP: I'd like to ask, by way of conclusion, do you have a word of advice for
aspiring musicians?
CS: Um, I would say -- well, two things. One thing is technical, and that is,
38:00slow listening and slow practicing. We use tools that are available to us now,like the Amazing Slow Downer, to listen to old recordings, to listen toregionally different recordings, to listen to the way people play. And I thinkalso that especially a person who hasn't grown up in a culturally Jewishhousehold must examine the culture and must examine the language, maybe, youknow, both -- and must also not feel like they know everything right away. Somepeople say, Oh, I already know how to do the klezmer phrasing. I don't know howto do -- I'm always learning. I'm listening to recordings. So I think constantlearning. You know, the more you know, the more you know you don't know. Andthat's, kind of, a wonderful feeling. Because once you've learned everything,now what? You know? Time to find another hobby or something. So I think constant 39:00study and talking to people of an older generation, honoring those people, andespecially musicians, looking to the source of where those musicians got thoseinterests, and slow practice. (Laughs) That's my story.
NP: Wonderful. Well, thank you so much. I'd like to thank you both personally
and on behalf of the Yiddish Book Center.
CS: Absolutely. I really love the Yiddish Book Center. We have many good
memories and feelings about it. So thank you, Nina. You're a doll. (Laughs)