COOKIE SEGELSTEIN ORAL HISTORY

NINA PICK: This is Nina Pick, and today's date is July 18th, 2019. I am here at Yiddish Summer Weimar in Weimar, Germany, with Cookie Segelstein, and we are going to record an interview as part of the Yiddish Book Center's Wexler Oral History Project. Cookie, do I have your permission to record this interview?

COOKIE SEGELSTEIN: Yes, you do.

NP: Thank you. So to start off, could you tell me briefly what you know about your family background?

CS: Well, I know quite a bit, because I'm kind of the one that keeps track of our family history. Both my parents are Holocaust survivors. My mother comes from the town of Munkatch, or Mukachevo, which was a very big center for Jewish 1:00thought. It was also -- had quite a population of Jews, possibly half the city. At the time of the late 1930s, maybe twenty-five thousand people were Jewish. This is what I've heard from my family. The famous Munkatch Rebbe comes from there, Rabbi Shapira. And my father comes from the town of Nizhniye Veretski, and he lived with his grandparents. And his grandfather was a disciple of this rabbi. So, the Segelstein side of my family comes from that region, which is sub-Carpathian Ruthenia. He said "Rutenia." It was very close to the border of Poland, Hungary. There were lots of ethnic Germans, Russians, Ukrainians, Hungarians, Czechs. So he spoke many languages, my father did. And he used to 2:00tell me stories about that area. He told me stories about his parents, but mostly of his grandparents, because he was sent to live with them as a child. And there was a tradition that the first born will be sent to live to learn Torah with the grandfather. But I know the first child died in infancy, that was born to his parents, and so he was the first surviving child of five brothers, three of whom survived after the war. I now know that that family had been in that region, at least as far as we know, to the early 1800s. There were several siblings. Some of them went off to Romania, so there's a branch of family that I have just recently discovered, some of who live in Paris, some of who live in Toronto, from that branch of family. My mother's family -- I don't have as much 3:00information about her family. She was younger when the war broke out. She was born in 1928. My father was born in '21. And he passed away in 2000. She's still alive. So we've tried to find information out about her. And I was asked to play at a sub-Carpathian Ruthenian Holocaust survivor memorial in LA, and somehow mentioned, "Gosh, I'd really like to find information about my mother." We didn't even know her birthdate. She and her sister survived Auschwitz and Reichenbach, a labor camp, and they were liberated May 8th, and they decided to choose May 10th as their birthday. But we learned this when she turned eighty-five, and she said, "I really would like to know when I was born." And my sister and brother and I were, like, What? And then we realized she didn't know her birthdate, and as she said, they just -- it wasn't important in Jewish life 4:00to know the -- you know, they wouldn't even say the birthday. They would say till 120, because they were superstitious. They wouldn't say their child's birthday. So when I mentioned -- I just said something to the organizer of this memorial, and he said, "I got a guy in the Ukraine." So I contacted this guy. Western Union sent him -- I sent him 150 bucks per family. He went into the records in Uzhhorod, which is where they're kept, and took pictures with his cellphone of the registration, where they registered births. So I got my mother's birthdate, my father's birthdate. He also found, in the censuses, back to the early 1800s, mostly about my father. So that was the first time I really got past, say, 1920s of history of my family. But both families were from that 5:00region for as far back as either there are records or as anybody remembers. So I guess I know, for survivors' families, I know quite a bit. But I've never been there.

NP: And how did they end up coming to the US?

CS: Well, after the war, they were in a series of DP camps, and since my mother and her sister went through everything together -- her sister was a little younger -- and they were going to go to Palestine on one of those, basically, midnight trains or midnight ships. And my mother decided not to. She went to another place, and they separated, thinking they would get back together. My father subsequently had found out that one brother had survived. That brother was already in America. He was young and somehow was sponsored to come through. 6:00So they met at a DP camp, and my father wrote to his brother and the relatives in the United States, and they sent papers for him to come to the United States. But he wrote back, "I'm married now." So that took about another two years to get papers for my parents to be sponsored by the Segelsteins in the States, in New York. And they were sent across in a private ship, the "Sobieski." And so they came over in 1948.

NP: And where and when were you born?

CS: Well, I was born in 1958 in Kansas City. So my father had been apprenticed back in Veretski as a tailor. And so he started working for a tailor in Brooklyn, and meantime going to school to get a certificate in patternmaking and clothing design, maybe in what became the Fashion Institute or the New York Institute of Design. I'm not sure, but it was the predecessor of one of those. 7:00And the tailor he was working for had a son who was also a patternmaker in Kansas City, where they had a small garment industry. So he said, "You know, they're looking for a designer in Kansas City." So he went to check it out, and found that there were quite a few survivors in Kansas City, even somebody they had known in one of the DP camps. And so he took that job, and they moved there. My brother was born in 1949 in New York, and they moved to Kansas City in '54. I was born in '58. My sister was born in '59. And we were insulated into the survivor community there, so there was really not much English in the house till I was maybe, I don't know, four or five. And then the Jewish Federation, or some Jewish organization, sent English teachers to houses in Kansas City. You know, 8:00'cause Kansas City is the northern seam of the Bible Belt, so these refugees that came in really outed the assimilated Jews there. So my feeling is, they were, like, We've got to teach these guys English. So I remember this woman coming to the house and saying, "Only English now," which is so tragic, because Hungarian and Yiddish were our household languages. We lost it, because they tried so hard. But I remember my mother still speaking to me in Hungarian and Yiddish, and I would answer in English. But I've lost -- I mean, I can understand Yiddish, but I don't speak it. So my father had this job, and my sister was born in '59. So we grew up, an insulated community inside, cowboy country on the outside.

NP: And was your family observant at this point?

CS: They were observant, very observant. They were Orthodox until I was probably -- well, through my brother's bar mitzvah. So we kept kosher -- at my brother's 9:00insistence. He was young, and he wanted to do it. And so we kept kosher until probably I was about, maybe, eight. My father was really not -- he was -- I don't know whether he believed in God. He was angry at God. And my mother was traditionally observant. But then we observed every holiday, but they didn't keep kosher after. My father ate bacon every Sunday, even on -- I remember Yom Kippur was one Sunday, and my mother came in and was cursing in Ukrainian, Hungarian, Ruthenian, you know. And, "On your grandmother's grave!" He said, "It's Sunday. I always eat bacon on Sunday." So he just wasn't observant at all, yeah.

NP: And did your family have Yiddish publications in the home?

CS: You know, I don't remember Yiddish publications in the home. They spoke 10:00Yiddish. They spoke Yiddish and Hungarian. Those were their two languages. We started to understand, you know, as we came back as teenagers. Of course, we understood the Yiddish, so they'd lapse into Hungarian sometimes. But they had more, I would say -- they were more interested in reading English. So my father, if we had a textbook, he would read it. Then he would test us. You know, when I was in music school, (speaking with a Yiddish accent) "When did Haydn die?" I'd get a phone call. No, "Hello, how are you?" "When did Haydn die?" I said, "Not soon enough." I mean, I was kidding. I love Haydn. But he was always testing. My brother got a law degree, so he would call. Then my brother stopped being a lawyer and became a physicist. My father wasn't able to really test him on the physics books. (Laughter) Yeah. So I don't remember Yiddish publications. They 11:00had some records that I don't remember what, but I remember hearing them laugh. I think they must have been some kind of Yiddish humor records. But I don't remember. And they read Yiddish -- my father read it in the Hebrew alphabet. My mother didn't. My mother read it in Latin letters. So --

NP: And was there a particular political atmosphere in your home?

CS: Pretty much Left. A lot of the family were socialists. And they -- yeah, they were pretty much Left-wing, I would say. I just remember when Nixon was going through the -- when the Watergate things were happening, my father was yelling at the television. And yeah, they were definitely Left-wing.

NP: And what was their perspective on the State of Israel?

CS: Very protective. They were never critical of Israel. And my father -- so 12:00actually, in about the late '50s, they found that my father had another brother that had survived who was living in Be'er Sheva. And so, they planned a reunion, and they all came to Kansas City. The three brothers got together, for the first time since the war, in 1963. So he had a brother there. My mother's sister was living there. She just died a couple of weeks ago, actually, the sister. So my mother went to Israel. We went when I was ten, in 1968, and my mother went about every other year to Israel. So we -- yeah. It was a love of Israel in our house, yeah. Mm-hm.

NP: And when you were a child, were there aspects of Jewish culture that were particularly meaningful to you?

CS: The thing that I really -- well, I loved the holidays. I always loved the holidays. Even when I knew it made me an outsider to the neighborhood, to the 13:00neighbors. And I loved the music. My father really sang to me a lot, which is part of the reason, probably, that I got into Jewish music, because he sang a lot of the melodies that we play now. And it was kind of, like, I guess, because when he would sing, it was when he was happy. And he was not happy very much. He was a very depressed man. And when he would teach me something, he would be so insistent, and I wanted to get it so right. And then as I got older, it was, like, Oh, God. You know, the people would come over for dinner, and I would be expected to come out and play. They'd cry, and that sucked. You know? But I really loved that part. And I loved the -- the refugees were like a -- not a 14:00single -- well, they were like a single-cell organism. They went everywhere together. They were always at our house. We were at their house. And I think that it felt like this big family, because they didn't have families. So if I came home from college, they all came to pick me up, in two cars. I got a comment. "I don't like your hair." "You're fat." "You're too skinny." "Where did you get those glasses?" "You look --" you know. So I would go down, and everybody would comment. And then when we were driving home, they'd say, Oh, wait, we have to pull over. [Hanke?] is behind us. I don't think she -- it was a convoy everywhere. So I really, kind of, you know -- thinking back, I love that. And I also loved the stories of Europe, where my -- you know, Back home, they would say. My mother didn't talk about it as much, you know, the good things 15:00about back home. I mean, she was just sixteen or under sixteen, I think, when she was -- you know, the Hungarian Jews were taken in '44, in the spring, so she was just sixteen. My father was older. He was in labor camps when he was already twenty-one. So, he had more memories that he could draw up. And that was, to me, to -- I also went skiing every winter with my father. Drove across Kansas to Colorado. That's when he would tell me stories the whole time, and sing. And so that, for me, was, like, you know. When he died, I went, Oh, shoot. No more stories. You know?

NP: So there's been a lot of research into the effects of the Holocaust on the descendants of survivors. How has it affected you?

CS: Well. You know, I've thought about this a lot, because I have two children. And, you know, I know anxiety definitely gets passed down in future -- I've seen 16:00it. My brother and sister and I have lots of similarities. One, no regard for money. We're terrible with money. I'm not in debt, but it's really hard for me to save money, because I think at any minute, who knows what could happen? So I have to set it up so my bank withdraws money monthly, or else I would just say, Well, as long as I'm not in debt, I'm fine. Okay, I'm going to buy that. You know? That's one thing. The other thing is, it takes me a long time to trust people. I'm very friendly to everybody, but it just takes me a really long time. And I have an abandonment fear. I think if, you know -- even in my marriage, which -- I love my husband. I'm married to Josh Horowitz, and we have a wonderful relationship. But it took me a long time to realize, if he's a half an 17:00hour late -- which he hardly ever is -- it doesn't mean he's gone. So we all have that, the abandonment fear. And I guess also, when I was younger, I used to feel like I had to hold down the fort at home. Our parents were so shattered that if something was wrong with me, if something happened to me, I couldn't tell them, because it would upset them too much. So if we look at pictures of ourselves when we were younger, we're all -- it's the worried smile, like, Everything's fine. Everything's fine. So that was part of, I think, the effects. As far as -- we're all three very outspoken. If we don't like something or someone, we just say it. I don't know whether that's survivor stuff. That just might be us. But I think the abandonment thing. You know, I'm, by nature, I 18:00mean, just by birth, I am a happy person. And I wake up happy. And then I start thinking of things that could happen. I know some of our friends that were also kids of survivors are not risk-takers. I was a big risk-taker. I used to teach horseback riding. I used to break and train horses. I hitchhiked. You know, we did all that. But before I would even put my foot in a stirrup to get on a horse, I'd have this fear of all -- and visualize every possible bone that could break, everything that could happen. But I just said, I'm just getting on the horse. You know? So I think, also, I'm very good in emergencies, not so good when nothing bad is happening. So I think that's pretty much it.

NP: And looking back on your childhood, what values do you think your parents 19:00were trying to pass on to you?

CS: Definitely family. It used to be we were told, They're the only ones you can trust. I don't feel that way, but that's what we were told. So family. I still call my mother almost every day. I text or speak to my sister and brother several times a week. My first husband used to call it the Segelstein huddle. "YouL) But also, it's interesting, because they -- my mother -- I don't know if she'll see this, but -- she was a thief. I mean, a big thief. Not like -- you know, she wouldn't go to somebody's house. If she was in a hotel, forget it. Everything went in her suitcase. "They got more," she said. "Just take the bedspread. You don't have anything in your house. Take the bedspread." (Laughs) You know, she was like that. We had to teach ourselves, no, you can't just go 20:00into the grocery store and start eating out of the produce. She said, "If you stand where the two mirrors meet, they can't see you. You could eat a whole banana." You know? But I think, really, loyalty to your family and to your chosen family, which they had with the other survivors.

NP: So we've been talking about your background, and I'd like to turn now to a discussion of how you got to where you are today. So could you tell me a bit about your journey to becoming a musician?

CS: Well, when I was in -- I was handed a violin at five, and expected to play, because my father saw that with the little Fisher-Price xylophone, I was able to pick out a tune. So I started taking lessons with another survivor's kid, who was a violinist, and then would play in the orchestras at school. But I wanted to be a vet, veterinarian. But then I hit chemistry in tenth grade, and I just 21:00-- it freaked me out. I couldn't do it. Violin was easy for me. And then I switched to viola in high school. And I liked it. I liked the harmony aspect of it. I liked the calmness of the viola players. And I decided to major in that. So I went to university in Kansas City, at the University of Missouri. Got a bachelor's. Went to Yale, got a master's. Got in the New Haven symphony, and was a classical musician. And the klezmer revival was starting to happen. And I had always played -- in Kansas City, there were a lot of Serbians, a lot of Yugoslavs there, so I had played in these folk dance orchestras, just 'cause I like those modes. But I never was interested in coming back to the music I was forced to play as a kid. So then I got pregnant with my first kid. And I got pregnant in eighty -- let's see. She was born in '88, so I basically got pregnant at the beginning of '88, 1988. And I started thinking about my history, 22:00my family history, and realizing she was going to have to learn about the Holocaust. I didn't know it was a girl, but my kid or kids were going to have to learn about the bad stuff. So I started kind of playing with these guys in New Haven that had gone to KlezKamp, and, you know, some of the melodies were familiar. And then I started getting interested in that music again. It was a little different approach, a different way of playing than I grew up playing. So I joined a synagogue in Chester, Connecticut, which is not far from Middletown, a little, tiny town. And they said, We want to have a klezmer band here at this synagogue. Would you lead it? We'll send you to KlezKamp. So they paid for me to go to KlezKamp. I think it was '92. And I went there, and I was blown away, because here were five hundred people over Christmas that didn't have to deal 23:00with Christmas trees -- even though I love Christmas trees -- and I took classes, and I started jamming with people. And then I remember that next year, I came back to Kansas City, and I said to my father, "You know the song 'Sha [Quiet]' that you taught me? I have the right way to play it." So I played it for him with all the ornaments, and all the trills. And he goes, (speaking with a Yiddish accent) "Oy, God, what's that noise?" He said, "What is that, Greek?" He didn't recognize it. And I got this epiphany that, Oh, so what you forced me to play was what these people are trying to learn how to play. And I thought, Oh, maybe it's just a different region. Huh. You know, I mean, I, kind of, hadn't thought about it that way. And so I went back the next year to KlezKamp. 24:00And then the third year, I started teaching. So '95, I started teaching at KlezKamp. And I decided, Well, I'm just going to play the way that I grew up playing, because it's just a different style. So I started jamming with Henry and the guys in Kapelye. And then I started getting work. And then there was a woman in the New Haven Symphony, Adrianne Greenbaum, who I don't know if you know her. She's a flute player. And she started researching klezmer flute. Well, her kid was having a bar mitzvah, so she reached over to me in the symphony. I was sitting second chair viola. She was flute. She taps me on the shoulder with her flute. She goes, "I hear you play klezmer." And I go, "Yeah." She goes, "Want a job?" I said, "Sure." So we played for her kid's bar mitzvah. And then I started working with her. She became a contractor, and we started doing bar mitzvahs and stuff. And it was good money back in the mid-'90s. And so, I was making a living as a playing musician, classical as well as starting to do 25:00Jewish. Started to play with Kapelye more, with Ken Maltz and those guys. Started to play with Henry Sapoznik. Started subbing in for Klezmer Conservatory. Still living in the New Haven area, raising two kids. I had, by this time, two kids. And then I'm teaching at KlezKamp. So I was really making probably more playing Jewish music than I was -- because I could come in and do strolling violin. I could play the society stuff. I could play the freylekhs [cheerful traditional tunes]. And then I could sit down and play a string quartet. So, I started getting a lot of -- music was good. You know, the music business was good then. And then in 2002 -- or 2000 -- KlezKamp, 2001. There was a student at KlezKamp who said, "I want to bring you to Albuquerque to teach at a week-long workshop, and I'm going to ask Josh Horowitz to come." So he and I -- I said, "Great." You know, people make all kinds of plans at KlezKamp, and 26:00then they forget. Everybody gets romantic at a festival. You know? We started talking on the phone to try to find repertoire together, because we were expected to put on a concert. And so, we met in Albuquerque, and we played this -- I mean, we, you know, met. We were trying to discuss what we were going to teach. And we played this concert where we were totally unprepared, but it was so much fun. He said, "You know, you should really make a record." And I said, "Well, I would do it with you." And so he introduced me to Stu Brotman that year. And so, we formed Veretski Pass and made a record in 2003. And I felt like I found my people to play with. You know? And then, of course, Josh and I started having a relationship, and we've been together since -- you know, seventeen years now. But with them, it was so free. We were so -- it was like this dream come true. Because, you know, you play -- a musician plays with 27:00everybody. We call it a paycheck gig. You play -- wherever there's a gig, you play. But when you find a group of people that you know you can create things with, there's just this kind of complete respect. Nobody ever says, Why did you do it that way? Everybody gets to try what they want to try. So that really became my main focus, that group, back in about, I'd say -- we started touring in Germany in 2004. My kids were old enough -- I really wanted to be home with them, so I was home during the day, and my rehearsals were nights and weekends. But I was able to -- then they were already teenagers, so I could leave for a week or so. And then, so Veretski Pass -- I was still playing with Henry. I still play with Henry. I joined Budowitz. So the European style, which is what I grew up with, at that point, became my main focus.

NP: And have you had any important mentors or teachers in Jewish music?

CS: Well, you know, it's interesting. I feel -- well, of course, my father was first and foremost. Everybody I play with, I always learn something from. From my husband, Josh, deeply learned a lot from him. Stu Brotman, learned a ton of stuff from Stu. Now we play with Joel, who to me -- I mean, I remember listening to -- I'm interrupting myself. Oh, well. In the '90s, I would take my kids to the beach at Misquamicut in Rhode Island, with one eye open, making sure they won't drown, and listening to the "Bessarabian Symphony," the record made by Josh and Joel Rubin. And I thought, This is the most beautiful playing I have ever heard in my friggin' life. I couldn't believe it. And I thought, I really want to play with these guys at some point. And so, when we made the Polish 29:00recording, and I think we recorded it in 2015, maybe, I was sitting there in a room with my husband, with Stu, and Joel. And I got really teary, because I've learned from every -- each of those, I would say. Pete Sokolow at KlezKamp, who is an icon, interesting icon. I've learned a lot of from him. He knows every Hasidic song. He knows every Fats Waller tune. A true musician. So anybody -- I was lucky enough to play with Howie Leess, with Sid Beckerman, with Paul Pincus -- uh, I don't know if I played with Paul Pincus. Some of the old New York guys, I was able to play gigs with them. Delicious, really. How are we doing? We're -- oh, yeah. We'll go, like, five more minutes or so, yeah.

NP: (UNCLEAR) Sounds good. And at the moment, what questions or what projects 30:00are most alive for you?

CS: This new one we just did with Joel, the Magid project, we got -- when we finished "Poyln," the Polish project, which was greatly helped by my friend Stefan Puchalski -- Puchalski, however he says it at the moment -- who is an American-born musician who did a lot of field work in Poland. And there's this resurgence of the lost Jewish music of fill-in-the-blank, you know? So there are groups who play this music that was collected by Oskar Kolberg throughout Poland. And we took some of what he called Jewish tunes, and we made them. We, you know, worked with them, and then we played some rural Polish stuff, and then a lot of Hasidic Polish tunes. And we made a project out of that. We had so much fun that we decided we needed to do another project. So sitting on the train from Vienna to someplace else with Joel and Stu and Josh, we said, We should 31:00really do something else. And then I think Joel said, "You know, we could do the Magid stuff." 'Cause he had a USB stick with the six hundred digitized recordings that the folks at Potsdam University did of these wax cylinder field recordings that she did in the 1920s. And I said, "Okay." And we started listening to them. And some of them were so simple that I was, like, Ugh, how are we going to get inspired to do this? But Josh sat down and started transcribing stuff. And he'd say, "You know, there's a really beautiful one. At least four measures are really beautiful, and we can work around that." So last night was the first time we played it. I mean, our trio had played it a few times in the Berkeley area, but this was the first time we played it since the recording with all four of us, except, you know, Stu wasn't there. It was with Benjy, who did a fabulous job. So I'm still really excited about that project. So we don't have anything yet in the -- what do you call it, the coffer? The 32:00hopper? The something that ends with E-R? I don't know. But that's still very new. So we're doing a bunch of touring in the States with that coming up in the fall. You know, we would like to do something else. Stu is getting older. He's almost seventy-seven. We'd like to get one more project under his belt if we can, but we'll see. Yeah.

NP: You've traveled all over the world as a performing musician. What has been the reception to your work in various countries you've been to?

CS: You know, Germany is very receptive. We really -- it's a very interesting thing with the history, and the way the grandchildren and children are so interested in Jewish culture and music. And every place we've gone has been really welcoming. One interesting thing, though, in Israel. I did the Safed 33:00Festival two years, three years ago. The sensibility of klezmer music at that festival was fast, faster, faster. And more like "Fiddler on the Roof" meets "Shalom aleichem [Hebrew: Peace be upon you]" -- I mean the song, not the guy. And it felt to me like it had not reached the level of introspection and research that it is here or in the States with the musicians. We were told, You have to play fast. The audience likes fast. So I did this with Polina and Merlin Shepherd, and Merlin said, "We're going to play the slowest, deepest 'Gasn nign [Street tune].'" You know? And we did. We were, like, No, we're not going to do that. So it felt like in Israel, they're not quite at the point of -- they have so much other influences of Jewish music -- and I'm generalizing, and I'm sure I'm leaving out some really wonderful work done. But that's the only place that 34:00I've felt the organizers and audience didn't seem so receptive to the type of music that we play. So --

NP: And what, if any, is the role of Yiddish language in your work?

CS: Well, we insist that our students listen to Yiddish speaking, because the inflections are very similar to the music. So, because music is identified with the voice, and the gestures, the Yiddish humor, (puts up both hands in a shrug gesture) this, the famous vants [bedbug] -- the bedbug joke, which is the best joke in the world. You know that joke? It's such a long joke. This guy has bedbugs. So, think of a shaggy dog. He has to go to this rabbi, says, "Try this spell. Go fast for thirty days. You have to pray. You can't shave. You have to do this." He finally goes to the master rabbi, and he's done all the things he has to do. And the rabbi says, "Come in." He takes out this big book, and he 35:00opens it up, and he pulls out a velvet bag, and he opens it up, and he says, "Okay. You take this powder. You open the bedbug's mouth. You put it in. You hold it closed. You recite the Hebrew alphabet. You say this prayer. You say the "Shema" seven times. And then that kills the bedbug." And the man says, "Well, sir, esteemed rabbi, esteemed teacher, great teacher, if I've already got the bedbug in my hand, can't I just squeeze and it'll kill him?" And the rabbi says, (shrugs) "That works, too." That gesture itself is so common in Jewish music, the drop-off of tone, the way that you approach a note. So I really insist, number one, that especially non-Jewish students sit in on at least a Conservative synagogue service, so they hear the idea of chaos, and also then hear a Yiddish speaker with the intonations of the speaking. So --

NP: And how would you describe your relationship with Yiddish today?

CS: I'm sorry I didn't keep it up. You know, I'm very sorry I didn't keep it up. So I have my mother speak to me in Yiddish. And, you know, that's -- I love it. I really -- if I were younger, and I had more time, I would try to relearn it. I probably could, but I work a lot. So --

NP: And what do you see as the future of the Yiddish language?

CS: You guys. Your generation and younger. I think organizations that promote Yiddish speaking in the family. And it's young people that have to find an interest in their heritage, definitely.

NP: And what do you imagine will be the future of klezmer?

CS: This. I mean, I have these fourteen-year-olds from Italy. It's also the 37:00young people. I think it's really -- it's doing what a musical -- you know, an ethnic music should do. It migrates, and it changes. It stopped at the Holocaust, you know, so there was this change of influences from all over. When the Silk Road opened, you get Turkish and Greek, and probably Indian influences. And then it stopped. So, I feel like even in the resurgence, in the revival, now it's starting to do that. It's changing. You get all kinds of different elements. Some people are upset about that, because it loses its original flavor. But there's no such thing as original. Things are always moving. So, I think it's wonderful. And again, it's young people. So --

NP: So, we're nearing the end of our time here, and you have to go teach.

CS: Yes. Yes.

NP: I'd like to ask, by way of conclusion, do you have a word of advice for aspiring musicians?

CS: Um, I would say -- well, two things. One thing is technical, and that is, 38:00slow listening and slow practicing. We use tools that are available to us now, like the Amazing Slow Downer, to listen to old recordings, to listen to regionally different recordings, to listen to the way people play. And I think also that especially a person who hasn't grown up in a culturally Jewish household must examine the culture and must examine the language, maybe, you know, both -- and must also not feel like they know everything right away. Some people say, Oh, I already know how to do the klezmer phrasing. I don't know how to do -- I'm always learning. I'm listening to recordings. So I think constant learning. You know, the more you know, the more you know you don't know. And that's, kind of, a wonderful feeling. Because once you've learned everything, now what? You know? Time to find another hobby or something. So I think constant 39:00study and talking to people of an older generation, honoring those people, and especially musicians, looking to the source of where those musicians got those interests, and slow practice. (Laughs) That's my story.

NP: Wonderful. Well, thank you so much. I'd like to thank you both personally and on behalf of the Yiddish Book Center.

CS: Absolutely. I really love the Yiddish Book Center. We have many good memories and feelings about it. So thank you, Nina. You're a doll. (Laughs)

[END OF INTERVIEW]