SARA KRUZANSKY ORAL HISTORY

CHRISTA WHITNEY: This is Christa Whitney and today is June 12th, 2011.  I'm here at the Yiddish Book Center in Amherst, Massachusetts with Sara Kruzansky and we are going to record an interview as part of the Yiddish Book Center's Wexler Oral History Project.  Sara, do I have your permission to record this interview?

SARA KRUZANSKY: You do.

CW:  Thank you.  So, can you tell me briefly what you know about your family background, where your family came from?

SK:  Well, my mother was born in a typical shtetl [small Eastern European town with a Jewish community] in Poland, southern Poland.  The name of it is Staszów.  It was in Kielce gubernia, which is province.  My father was born 1:00not even in a small town but really a village, Józefów.  And there are lots of Józefóws in Poland.  This is a small, very small town.  And that was in the gubernia, the province of Lublin.  They both left their homes -- my father was about twelve -- to become an apprentice in Warsaw.  My mother, probably about fifteen or so, simply, I think, to get away.  (laughs) She went to Warsaw and that's where they met and that's where they got married.  And what else would you like to know?

CW:  What was the apprenticeship that your father did?

SK:  Making shoes.  It's called, in Yiddish, a "kamashn-makher."  That's the uppers in the shoes. 

CW:  And did your parents ever talk about the Old Country, what it was like?

SK:  A lot.

CW:  Yeah?

A:   A lot.

CW:  How did they describe it?

SK:  Well, it's a mixture of missing family.  Sad, in a way, for my mother, particularly.  But also, at the same time, it was not a good place to be.  Better to be in America, although my mother, particularly, missed her family terribly.  She had a big family and my parents had no relatives in the United -- I never had aunts, uncles in the United States.  So, it was very hard.  It was lonely.  But certainly, never with an, Oh, wasn't that a wonderful place?  But still, it was home.

CW:  And how did they end up coming to the States?

SK:  Well, my father, like so many of his contemporaries, was not about to go into the army of the czar.  And so, they got married in 1911.  He was twenty 3:00at the time and so, he had to leave before his twenty-first birthday.  So, they were married, I think, I don't know, five months or whatever and then he left.  And at that time, there was a movement to get Jews out of New York City.  So, he was part of the Galveston movement and he actually landed in Galveston.  And the goal was not to stay in Galveston but to move these immigrants in other places.  He didn't go exactly -- I think he was -- yeah, I can't remember everything.  But seemed to me that he said he was supposed to go to Oklahoma City and he did and he didn't like the job that they were going to offer him.  And so, he asked, in Polish -- I guess there were some workers.  There were a 4:00lot of meat plants or whatever.  That would have been Omaha.  I'm not sure.  It was either Oklahoma City or Omaha.  I remember the O.  But I think it was Oklahoma City.  And so, he then asked, "Well, where are there shoe factories?"  'Cause that's what he knew how to do.  And they said, "St. Louis."  So, he got on a train and went to St. Louis and that's where they lived.  I had two older brothers who were born in St. Louis.  And then, they moved to Chicago.  I was born in Chicago.  But that's the story of how he got to St. Louis.  And then, two years later, he saved his money, he brought my mother over and she also did not come to Ellis Island.  She went to Baltimore, because that made more sense, because she was going to go to St. Louis.  So, that's how they got here.

CW:  And would you say you grew up in a Jewish home?

SK:  Oh, this is very -- (laughter)

CW:  Well, what about your house -- I mean, everything, but what about your house were --

SK:  First of all --

CW:  -- were the markers?

SK:  -- my parents were very religious.  I was brought up in a very Jewish home.  Not just a Yiddish home, but a Jewish home in terms of all the holidays.  Now, my father did have to compromise and work on Shabbos.  But it was something that was -- he suffered with that.  And he would say, "Why did God punish me that I have to work on Shabbos?"

[BREAK IN RECORDING]

CW:  So, can you describe the physical space of your home?  Did you always live in the same place?

SK:  No.

CW:  Or did you move?

SK:  No, we moved around when I was quite young.  First of all, I didn't live -- well, yeah, the physical space, okay.  It wasn't called a flat.  We used 6:00the word apartment.  And it was in Chicago.  Not big apartment buildings.  It would be like a two-family or three-family house.  And what I remember is -- you want to go way back?  (laughs)

CW:  Yeah!

SK:  I have a memory, vague, when I was about four years old where we lived in a flat.  I don't remember much about it, but we had a grocery store and in those days, lived in back of the store.  So, really, the first memory is we lived in back of the store and I don't remember too much about that.  I was about five.  And we moved around, as I said, when I was quite young.  And then, we moved -- where did we go?  Then another store, and that was also in 7:00back of the store.  And then, we moved to a third-floor flat in the back.  And I remember that 'cause we had a fire, and then -- but a long time, we lived in a flat, it was two stories and we were upstairs.  And I guess there were two, three -- I think there must have been three bedrooms, I remember, and it was an old neighborhood.  It was a Black neighborhood or African American, and there were just a few Jewish families scattered around in that area.  I mean, our neighbor underneath us was a Black family.  And it was very sparse, not very 8:00nice.  (laughs) And that's it.

CW:  How did you know -- were there any pieces, items in your house that you remember always being a sign of it being your home?

SK:  We were very poor and there really wasn't -- I mean, all you had were the necessities and -- no, I don't remember anything particular.

CW:  What did your family do for Shabbos?

SK:  As I said, my father had to work on Shabbos.  But home, the house, we lived next door, that was the biggest part of where we lived.  The store was a small, little store and we lived in the building next door, which was a two-family house.  And of course, my mother did everything for Shabbos: 9:00scrubbed the floors and cleaned the house and cooked and baked and everything.  And Shabbos was Shabbos.  The candles were lit and -- but not to the point where -- I mean, we still turned on the radio for the "Yidishe shtunde [Yiddish hour]" (laughs) in Chicago.

CW:  Well, can you describe, tell me a little more about that?

SK:  Well, first of all, it was Friday nights.  Was on Friday night.  And I didn't know until very recently, actually, that the music that introduced that program every Friday night -- in my ears, I could still hear it -- actually, I found out what that is: Bach's "Air" on a G string.  (laughs) That's what it was!  And it was -- you know, it was a small radio, sitting on the kitchen table.  My mother looked forward to that.  And it was a lot of music.  Not that much talk.  Wasn't like the program that I remember when I came to New 10:00York and that was, I guess, sponsored by the "Forward," there was much more news.  And this was really like a fifteen-minute program for some music.  And I can't remember that much more except that every Friday -- and the candle, I can see that.  That I see in my mind, very clearly.  Candles, the radio with the "Yidishe shtunde," and every Friday, my mother baked a raisin cake or apple cake.  (laughs) And of course, chicken soup and the usual.  So, it was very much of -- and every Jewish holiday was observed, no matter how minor it might seem to a lot of people.

CW:  And --

SK:  Okay.

CW:  -- what was your favorite Jewish holiday?

SK:  I kind of liked -- I actually liked Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur because 11:00-- I didn't go to shul, that was -- kids didn't go to shul.  I stopped in.  And it's the time of year, I think, I liked.  I don't know why.  I just kind of liked that, maybe, because I like that time of year and I still do.  And sometimes, got new clothes.  Was the beginning of school, I think maybe that's why.  And I loved school. 

CW:  And do you remember any ways that your family -- were there any special ways that your family, in particular, celebrated any of the holidays that you remember?

SK:  I think the way most Polish Jews did, (laughs) those who were still religious.  I don't know that it was anything different.  Yeah, the gefilte 12:00fish was not real salty or peppery.  Not very sweet.  But no, I don't know that it was any different from --

CW:  And --

SK:  -- other people's holidays.

CW:  -- when you talk about the minor holidays, which holidays do you mean?

SK:  Well, for example, Tu Bishvat, which we always call "Chamisha asar b'shvat [Hebrew: Fifteenth of Shevat]," or as they would say, "Chamisha asar b'shvat."  My parents made sure to get bokser [carob pod].  That's what I mean, not everybody bothered with that.  And we had bokser and dates and so that we knew that was the holiday.  And my mother always, always made hamantaschen.  So, that's, I guess, what I mean.  And, of course, stayed out of school for all the holidays, like the two days before, the two days at the beginning, the two days at the end.  It was permeated.  That was my life.

CW:  And what languages were spoken in your home?

SK:  Yiddish.  My parents spoke Yiddish to each other.  I spoke Yiddish to my parents.  I had two brothers.  They were both older than I.  The older of the two also spoke Yiddish to my parents.  But the younger of the two, he certainly understood everything, but he would answer them mostly in English.  I don't think it was any conscious thing on his part.  It's just the way it was.  But I always liked languages anyway.  And so, I really did grow up bilingually.

CW:  Was there a particular political atmosphere in your home, in addition to 14:00the religious --

SK:  Well, they were definitely not left, that I can tell you.  I would say politically -- well, they certainly voted for -- liked Roosevelt.  And there wasn't much talk of politics.  They were concerned with making a living and worrying about the people in Europe.  And if there was polit-- I mean, I really was not aware of it.  I can tell you that they were not Yiddishists.  They were religious Jews who didn't question anything about their religion or what politics -- they knew what was right, what was wrong, and that was to be a good Jew. 

CW:  And how did they -- or, looking back, what values were passed on from your 15:00parents to you?

SK:  Oh, to do the right thing.

CW:  What was the right thing?  How did you know?

SK:  Behave properly.  Be respectful.  And I can tell you, the one thing is that I certainly saw was compassion.  You never turn anybody away.  And my father said, "If all you have is a nickel, then you give a nickel."  And that was seen as a Jewish value.  And love of learning.  My father, they didn't have much education, formal education, at all, but books were something to be treasured.

CW:  Were there examples of letting people stay in the home or --

SK:  Well, we didn't have relatives, but I heard -- yeah, well, there were some 16:00relatives who came from Canada.  And everybody, of course, there was never such a thing as there's no room or we don't have enough.  And believe me, they didn't.  But I grew up with stories about that because -- the story that people who were trapped in Europe because World War I came, and then how afterwards, how difficult it was and that they brought over friends and friends stayed on -- my mother slept on two chairs, 'cause there wasn't an extra bed, that kind -- so, I certainly grew up with a feeling of, You never turn anybody away.  That was definitely some -- and I never would say, Oh, I don't know -- if I had a friend who'd say, "Is it okay to bring this person home to eat," I mean, it never occurred to me to question that.

CW:  Yeah.  And who were your friends?

SK:  Kids in the neighborhood.

CW:  Did you have any great friends that you remember?

SK:  Oh yes, I had a friend who just died last year.  And we became friends when we were both about seven.  And we were inseparable.  And, of course, she got married and moved to California.  I lived in Connecticut, so we didn't see each other for many years.  Many years.  But we always kept in touch.  And then, maybe twenty-five years after I hadn't seen them, her -- and I was a bridesmaid at her wedding -- then my husband and I traveled out West and we picked up and we did a lot after that.  And when her husband was retired and my husband was retired, we traveled together.  We traveled out West together.  We went to western Canada.  They came East.  So, we spent time together.  Yes, 18:00that was a friendship that lasted a long time.  Other friends, that's the one from when I was very young.

CW:  Yeah.

SK:  But the others, I don't remember (laughter) what happened to them.  But that was my special friend, yes.

CW:  Can you tell me a little bit more about the neighborhood?

SK:  Well, the neighborhood, most of the time, from the time I was, I guess, five, really, we lived in -- not in a Jewish neighborhood, as I mentioned to you.  This was what used to be called a colored neighborhood and there were a few Jewish families scattered in the area, not necessarily even on the same street that I lived on.  Could be a block or two away.  So, that was the neighborhood.  And I went to school, at least grade school.  Not high school.  Went to grade school there.

CW:  And was that a public school?  'Cause I know you --

SK:  Public school.

CW:  Public school?

SK:  Public school.

CW:  But you also had a religious education, right?

SK:  I did.

CW:  And you said you really liked school.  What did you like about it?

SK:  Everything.  (laughs)

CW:  Did you have any particular teachers that you --

SK:  Yes.

CW:  -- remembered?

SK:  I do.  I remember, vaguely, first grade, a teacher named Miss Johnson.  I can't describe her, anything, and I remember it because I learned to read and that was magic.  (laughs) And I remember a teacher in -- I guess used to have 2A and 2B, I think this was 2B or 2A, I don't remember, Miss Lawson.  She was a very, very light-skinned -- what we, I said, used to call a colored woman.  And 20:00she was tall and very attractive.  And I remember her very well because there was a certain look about her that I remembered, and I liked her a lot.  And I also had a music teacher that I remember, Miss Farrow.  Also, non-white and fifth grade.  I remembered her because she was very dynamic.  She really liked the music.  And in grade school, I think those are the -- it's amazing that those are the two teachers I remember, yeah.

CW:  So, can you tell me a little bit more about that magic of reading?  What were the books that you loved as a child and --

SK:  Fairy tales.  I loved fairy tales and I just loved to read, and I still feel that way.  (laughs) Yeah, going to the library was a big part of my 21:00life.  And I used to go with my friend, Ruth, the one I told you about.  And we would go walk to the library and take five books and read them.  They have a story hour.  We'd go for that, read our books, go back, come back and forth to the library.  That was a big part of growing up.  There was a lot of time then.  There was no TV and we didn't go anywhere.  We didn't travel anywhere.  We just stayed around, so -- it was time to read.  (laughter)

CW:  Yeah.  So, were there any times in your life that you felt -- or in your childhood, rather, that you felt particularly Jewish?

SK:  That's like asking somebody, "Did you know that you were breathing?"  (laughter) It was just who I was and who I am.

CW:  Yeah.  Did you ever have to educate other people in your community about what it meant to be Jewish?

SK:  It didn't come up.

CW:  Good.  (laughs) So, we've been talking a lot about the early part of your life, but can you just give me a snapshot of your life today?

SK:  Today?  Well, I guess the first thing that when you say that to me, is -- (crying) I'm going to do that again.  My husband died seven years ago and that 23:00changed my life.  But basically, I would say I had a very good life that I'm very grateful for.  I'm in good health and I have three children.  Very devoted, good children.  I have seven grandchildren and like everybody else, every grandma, I think they're terrific.  (laughs) I'm well.  I still teach and -- despite the fact that I miss my husband terribly.  I would say that I have a good life and I manage to enjoy things.

CW:  Would you mind telling me how you met your husband?

SK:  I was working in New York.  I was working at the American Jewish Committee, as a secretary.  And there was a girl working in the office who was 24:00from Danbury, Connecticut.  And she said to me, "There's somebody in my hometown; you look like you could be related to him."  She said, "I think you might like him or he might like" -- I don't remember the exact words she said after that.  And she said, "Could I give him your telephone number?"  Something like that, and I said, "Sure, okay."  And so, she did and he came to New York and we got married five months later.  And I moved to Danbury and that's where I've been.

CW:  How did you end up in New York?

SK:  I was working.  I wanted to see something different than Chicago, and I did.  It's easy to get a job.  I was a secretary and the war was over and 25:00there were a lot of jobs.  So, I came in and that's what I did.  I got a job as a secretary and I met my husband and I moved to Danbury.

CW:  Yeah.  Can you tell me a little bit about the Yiddish language?  When did you use it after you left your parents' home?

SK:  Oh, I'm gonna tell you a really good story about that.  I didn't really use it at all because I had no reason to.  I did not go to college.  When I got out of high school, I went to work.  I wanted to go to college, but it was just not possible.  So, when my daughter, my youngest daughter, was in college -- and I had taken some courses, even when my children were younger, at night, 26:00to try to see what I could do.  So, I had a few credits but I never thought to do much with it.  And I decided I wanted to go back.  Now I had the time and I would go to college.  And so, I enrolled in college and I loved it.  And I thought, This is so great, I'm gonna continue.  And I decided -- I got an undergraduate bachelor degree in history, and I really loved Jewish history.  I did a lot of reading.  I had even taken some courses, now that I remember, when I was in Chicago when I was about seventeen.  I was working and I took night courses at what used to be called the College of Jewish Studies.  So, I had some background.  That is, formal background.  And so, I enrolled -- I went to 27:00New York.  I went twice a week and I enrolled at Hunter and they put up a course for me for a master's program.  And I studied, I took some courses at Hunter.  I took courses at the graduate center of City College and I took courses at YIVO.  So, it was tailor-made; it was wonderful.  But then, when I wanted to get a master's, I did my master's essay, but I had to fulfill a language requirement, a modern language requirement.  And I said, You know, the last time I studied a foreign language other than Yiddish and Hebrew was Latin, in high school, and I can't start now.  I was no longer that young.  I told you, my kids were already out of college, the older ones.  And so, I said, 28:00"What about Yiddish?  Because I can read and write Yiddish."  They said, Yes.  And that's how I got to use Yiddish in my later life.  That's how I was able to fulfill my language requirement.  I translated some Yiddish from a history book.

CW:  Wow.

SK:  That's pretty good.  (laughs) I really thank my parents, (laughs) because I studied Hebrew and Yiddish.

CW:  And do you remember what YIVO was like?  I mean, I'm sure you do, but --

SK:  Oh, of course.

CW:  Can you describe it?

SK:  It wasn't that long ago.

CW:  Yeah.  Can you describe it?

SK:  When I went to YIVO, it was on Fifth Avenue and Eighty-Sixth Street, not where it is now.  What a wonderful building.  The most inefficient building you could possibly imagine to have a library and an institute in.  But it was a 29:00mansion, so it was an interesting building to be in.  And to sit in that room and just -- and very, as I said, inefficient.  They had the card catalog and if you wanted something, it had to go on that dumbwaiter.  (laughs) The books were pulled up on the dumbwaiter.  But I loved it.  I loved going in and going to the -- I would just spend time there and I really liked it.  And the grad center, which was across the street from the New York Library, that's another wonderful building to be in.  It's a great building.  And so, I could go in, I would get in there and just spend the day there and then go to the class across the street at the grad center.  And so, it was really nice.  I really enjoyed my college years much more than the young people do.  (laughter)

CW:  Did you have any, or -- sorry, do you remember any of the teachers you had 30:00at YIVO?

SK:  Oh, yeah.  Oh, yeah.  He died.  And I'm sure the name may be familiar to you: Lucjan Dobroszycki was my teacher.  I do remember him very well.

CW:  And what did he teach?

SK:  The history of Polish Jews.  And he was good.  I mean, he brought in information you just don't get in books.  He lived it.  And he also had a PhD, in Europe.

CW:  Yeah.

SK:  Yeah. 

CW:  So, what was it about Jewish history that became your passion?

SK:  I don't know, I don't know.  I really don't know. I mean, I like history.  Maybe it was personal, you know, that's who I am.  And I can't tell 31:00you, but it was something that -- it grabbed me and when I got into it, it became a passion.

CW:  What's your favorite period to teach?

SK:  I kind of like the Middle Ages, even though it's a pretty bad period.  But a lot of the periods are bad periods.  And I kind of like up until, I guess, from about the thirteenth to about the end of the -- not even, yeah -- the end of the eighteenth, beginning of the nineteenth century, early nineteenth century.  I like that.

CW:  And you said you taught people of different ages.  I mean, I just know 32:00that for many teachers, there are specific moments that felt like a success as a teacher.  Do you have any of those?

SK:  Well, I never expected to teach, believe me; I didn't go to school for that reason.  I didn't go back to school for that reason.  That was just serendipity.  It just fell into my lap.  And I think when a student came up and said, "It's the best course I've had this year," that was great.  And when some students came up and said, Are you gonna be teaching any other courses?  So, those were very good.  And since then, I have been teaching, I told you, at these programs.  And the fact that it's -- as I said, I never started out to do 33:00this.  I just kind of fell into it.  But I'd been going back to Norwalk and to Stamford, teaching now for about six years or so.  And I did teach at elder hostels and I had the same people coming back every year at Stamford, and I've been asked to come back all the time at Norwalk Community College, which is not part of the community college -- that the program just happens to be -- that's where they are.  They have the rooms.  That's where they teach.  So, that's really gratifying and I'm still doing it and people like it.  And I'm gonna be teaching this summer, the Federation in Danbury are sponsoring -- I've been doing this now for a few years and people said, When are you teaching another course?  Are you gonna be teaching another course?  So, yeah, it's pretty gratifying, since I didn't start out that way.  (laughs)

CW:  Yeah.

SK:  It just happened and --

CW:  You have --

SK:  -- it's a lesson in life.  (laughs)

CW:  And you have a gift for it.  (laughs) Have there been any experiences during your life that were particularly formative in your sense of identity?

SK:  I think I always had a sense of identity.  It came with being born to my family.

CW:  If you were trying to explain what it meant to you to be Jewish, just to someone who didn't know anything about Judaism, how would you start?

SK:  I don't know.  I really don't know how to answer that because, as I told you, it's so natural.  This business of people asking, Why be Jewish?  I mean, 35:00it's an unnecessary question.  It's part of who I am, that's all.  And if I were maybe born to another family, I would feel that's who I am.  But this is where I was born, this is who I am, and I don't know that I would feel I even have to answer that question.

CW:  How has language influenced your sense of identity, if at all?

SK:  Oh, I think it has.  I think it has.  First of all, Yiddish -- because I teach, so I know this -- Yiddish isn't just another lan-- it's the language, specific language of the Jews.  No other people speak that language, and this was a special language.  It's our own language is how -- what it would be.  36:00So, I think even growing up in a bilingual home, there's a sense of language.  And I love language and I think I have a feel for it.  And the way things are expressed in a certain language explains a lot about the people, about the culture.

CW:  Can you give an example for Yiddish?

SK:  Oh, (laughs) I wish that you had told me this ahead of time, I would have -- I want to think of something that's not just comic.  I don't like that.  Oh, I know.  There was -- expression my mother always used and I use it to explain things to my own family.  "Vi eyner iz tsu zibn iz tsu zibetsik."  37:00It's a very good expression: "What you see at seven is what you will see at seventy."

CW:  And how do you explain that?

SK:  Because you see the character of a person.  People change, but the essential character is there and you will see that.  And I believe it.

CW:  And do you have --

SK:  I'm trying to think of some other expressions (laughter) that were so -- 'cause I grew up with them.

CW:  Right.

SK:  And I do remember them very well.  There was another one that my mother would use: "Az men hot kinder in di vign, darf men lozn laytn tsufridn -- when you have children in cradles," it's sort of like, "Don't bother other people," 38:00which really means, "Don't criticize other people's children."  (laughs)

CW:  And I mean, Yiddish has something to it.  What is it about -- I don't know, what does it feel like when you speak Yiddish?

SK:  Well, of course, on a personal level, it feels like my parents, because those are the only people I spoke Yiddish to, was my parents.  I didn't speak Yiddish to my brothers.  So, that's the first thing, of course, that would come to my mind.  And secondly, it's really a language of the people.  There may not be a Shakespeare in Yiddish, but it's just something that is -- it's mine.  39:00And (crying) it's home.  (laughs) I didn't expect to do this.

CW:  It's okay.  It's important.

SK:  Yeah.  I guess more than I realized.  It's my childhood.

CW:  Yeah.

SK:  And the only people I spoke to were my parents.

CW:  Do you remember particular ways that they spoke?  Because there are so 40:00many different forms of Yiddish.

SK:  I'm not quite sure.  Do you mean the accent?

CW:  Yeah, or just turns of phrases, like your mother using those --

SK:  Well, there are a lot of those, I just can't recall them at the moment.  But a lot of speech was with aphorisms and idioms and answers like that all the time.  And you said about what -- their values, one of the things was not to curse.  And the Yiddish word is "shilt."  No shilting, that that was not nice, to curse.  And it has to do, also, with the religion, because loshn-hore [ill-natured gossip], to speak badly of people, gossip and using bad language, that's part of -- to be Jewish is you don't do that.  To be a good Jew.  41:00(laughter) And you asked about values.

CW:  So, is there anyone -- or any moments that you use Yiddish today, besides the --

SK:  Only if I want to make a point, like I told you those -- not really phrases, but aphorisms.  And I use those quite a bit when I want to make a point, because they say something I want to say and it's pithy and it says it, just the examples that I gave you.  And there are just so many of them.  I mean, my head is filled with them, but I can't think of them right now --

CW:  That's fine.

SK:  -- because they used that a lot.  That was a lot of the way, in growing up -- those expressions were used. 

CW:  Well, so when you were creating your own home with your own family, were 42:00there specific things that you discussed with your husband about education for your children and ways that you wanted to pass this on to them?

SK:  Well, my husband also came from a religious family.  I think his father worked on the Sab-- but kosher home, observing the holidays.  So, that really wasn't -- it was almost not necessary to discuss it.  It's something we both just knew what we would do.  And my husband was as interested as I was and am.  So, we, of course, had a kosher home, always, and belonged to a synagogue.  And, in fact, my husband would read the chant of the Torah on Rosh 43:00Hashanah and Yom Kippur.  So, there was never a question if you have to discuss this.  I mean, it's just something we just both did.  And the values were there and there was nothing to discuss.  (laughs)

CW:  Do you still make cakes on Shabbos?

SK:  No, (laughter) I gave that up a long, long time ago.  When my kids were little I did that, but I'm not big on baking that much.  (laughs) But I have Shabbos, of course, yeah.

CW:  And you light candles and --

SK:  Oh, yeah, yeah.

CW:  And are there specific foods you do make for holidays?

SK:  Yes, but not necessarily the ones my parents, my mother made.  Don't have to keep everything the same.

CW:  Right.  (laughs)

SK:  And what do I make?  For Thanksgiving, I make stuffing from challah.  That's good!  (laughs) And I make a mock kishke [tripe], which are from Tam Tam crackers.  And, let's see, I'm trying to think.  I don't do so much anymore.  Those are a couple of things.  But I used to make, years ago -- of course, I would always, for Rosh Hashanah, make a plum cake and --

CW:  Did you always celebrate Thanksgiving?

SK:  Oh, that's a big holiday.  That's a big holiday of my home, yeah.

CW:  As a kid, too?

SK:  No.

CW:  Oh.

SK:  My parents did not.  They did not.  They knew it was Thanksgiving and I was in the plays as a kid with the Puritans and all that stuff, the Pilgrims.  But no, I always celebrated and it's a very big holiday in my family. 

CW:  And why is it important to you?

SK:  I don't know.  (laughter) It's just a holiday.  I love the holiday and it's -- I just love Thanksgiving.  And we celebrate, everybody, family gets together.  And I guess it's the one American holiday we really celebrate.  And we have a custom in our family and we go around, everybody, "What are you thankful for?" 

CW:  Yeah.

SK:  So, it's a nice holiday.

CW:  I agree.  So, I know that it's hard to articulate, but are there any particular stories that you want to transmit or make sure that your children and grandchildren know about?

SK:  I have tried over the years -- not over the years, but more recently -- to tell them different things about my family or about myself.  And I'm very fortunate because my children live in Danbury.  And my grandchildren have grown up there.  So, I've had the opportunity -- they know me.  So, over the years, they've come to know who I am and I have told them stories.  I guess I've told them stories about my father, to some extent.  And, of course, some things 47:00about myself.  Yeah, I would like them -- of course I want them to know.  Obviously, that's, especially as you get old, I mean, that's your immortality.

CW:  Well, what's a favorite story about your father?

SK:  Well, I tell my -- it's a story I've told quite frequently to my children and grandchildren and even in-law children.  Well, there are two stories.  First is the one that my father -- as I told you, was very religious.  I mean, he did not wear a beard or dress -- but he had very strong belief in God and even when he had to work, he put on tefillin every morning.  And he always said 48:00a blessing before he ate, always made the brokhe.  And this is the story I tell my children and my grandchildren.  And my father said, "An animal just eats.  Human being has to say a blessing and has to know where the food comes from."  And that's a lovely story.  I tell that.  Another story that I have told, I don't know if I told it that much to my kids.  I've told it to people.  When my father was here in World War I, when America entered the war -- so, he wasn't drafted, but you had to sign up for whatever it is you had to do.  And, at that time, he was told -- he already had my brothers, or one of my brothers was 49:00born.  One of my brothers was born and they asked him, they said that Russia is an ally of the United States in the war, which they were.  And, of course, at that time, remember, Poland belonged to Russia.  So, even on his whatever -- they used to call a "shifs card [identification, lit. "ship card"]" -- his country of origin was listed as Russia, even though he never thought of himself as Russian, but as a Polish Jew.  And they said, If you wanted to fight for Russia, you could fight for Russia and still be -- and my father said, "I don't fight for the Russian czar."  (laughs) Said, "If America needs me, I will fight.  I will not fight for Russia."  So, that's a story.  And he said that 50:00when he did go for citizenship, that was noted in his record that he had said that.  So, that counted; that was a big plus.  And I like that story because they asked him if he would fight for Russia.  He ran away from Russia!  So, that's a story and there are lots of stories, but can't think of them right now.

CW:  Yeah.  Can you --

SK:  Go ahead.

CW:  No, no.

SK:  No, I really can't think of anything at the moment.  My mother, she missed her family, as I said.  She really was lonely for that, 'cause we had no relatives.  And I remember that, that she was sad.  She was very lonely for family.

CW:  Yeah.

SK:  And I always missed having aunts and uncles and cousins.  But my kids 51:00do.  My grandchildren have cousins, 'cause they're all in the same town.  So, that makes me feel good.

CW:  Yeah.  So, one thing I like to ask people, as a young person, is what historical events that you have lived through have affected your life?  Or do you have any specific stories around them?

SK:  What historical events?  I suppose I should say the Holocaust, but I have to tell you truthfully, there was no television then, and I was young.  And I certainly knew about Hitler.  And -- no, I'm going to tell you now, I'll tell you what historical event -- I'm going to interrupt myself.  The State of 52:00Israel, when Israel was declared a state, that I remember very, very vividly, and what we felt.  And I remember going with my parents to the Chicago Stadium.  And we saw -- well, at that time, you didn't have television.  You couldn't have a video of anything.  But we heard through loudspeakers, they would -- and it wasn't the same time, but Ben-Gurion declaring the state.  It was like, I guess, a recording of it or something.  Yes, that was big.  That was big.  And the end of World War II, of course, because I had brothers that were in the service.  Those were the things.  And it's almost like a separation of time, when World War II ended.  That was a separation of time, 53:00'cause that was also when the Depression was over.  And that would be it.

CW:  So, what did you feel when the State of Israel was declared?

SK:  Oh God, it was almost like a miracle.  It was a miracle.  And my parents were always -- and they weren't active members, but very, very strong in support of -- I mean, as a kid, I did go out with the little box, with the blue box, so I mean -- and I grew up with singing songs about Palestine.  (laughs) Now, that was Palestine.  That was for Jews.  (laughter) And so, this was something that 54:00I grew up with.  It was a miracle, and seeing how my parents and all the older people were just -- they couldn't believe it.  And don't forget, it came after the Holocaust, so it's hard to explain what we felt after what we found out after the Holocaust.

CW:  Yeah.  Did you have any contact with refugees after the war?

SK:  My father did have some friends.  I didn't pay much attention and I left, I went to Chicago, although it was quite a few years after that, actually, that I went, but --

CW:  To New York?

SK:  Yeah, to New York.  But it was plenty of time.  My father did have --- I remember there was a man who came to the house, not to live with us, but he visited.  And the stories were unbelievable that my father would tell me about this man, very religious, who had lost a whole family, children, and got married again and had children.  And if you met this man, you would never know that anything bad had happened.  And then, of course, I worked in Chicago.  I told you I went to work from high school and I graduated high school, I was sixteen.  So, I went to work for what would be considered the UJA or Federation, it had -- different name down in Chicago.  And it was shortly after 56:00the end of the war and -- it was right at the end, yeah.  And that's where I saw refugees coming in to speak.  They had speakers and people and when I came to New York, I worked for the American Jewish Committee and people came into work in the office.  Many of them were refugees or they were from -- yeah, some of them were survivors from camps.  And there were people who came in, yeah.  So, that was it.

CW:  And I know you have traveled to Eastern Europe as an adult.

SK:  Yeah, I've done quite a bit of traveling, yeah.

CW:  Can you tell me a little bit about that?  (laughs)

SK:  Well, I went, in 1996, my husband and I went, and it was on a tour.  And 57:00before I went, I had read in a magazine an ad of this man who was setting up (coughs) -- excuse me, he was restoring a Jewish cemetery and it was in my mother's hometown.  And I called him and I told him that I was going to go to Europe and I was gonna be in Poland and I knew exactly where.  I was gonna be in Warsaw and I was gonna be in Krakow, and I knew that Krakow was not that far from the town.  So, I said, "I really would like to visit."  And so, he gave me a contact, and that was before email, and I contact -- there's somebody, a young man.  Polish.  A young Polish man.  And through them, I made 58:00arrangements to be picked up.  I was picked up in Warsaw and driven to Staszów and then stayed overnight and went to Krakow.  But I went there, there was a young woman from Chicago, as a matter of fact.  Peace Corps.  She's working the Peace Corps in Staszów, in that town, and she came with the driver.  And she told me she wanted me to speak to her high school class.  She was teaching English.  So, that was an experience, quite an experience, going into the town, being welcomed with flowers and staying overnight in what I called a half-star hotel.  And I was invited to homes, went to people's homes.  They were very gracious to me.  Very, very nice to me.  As far as my feelings about the town, 59:00I had none.  This was not my mother's town.  This was a city that had apartment buildings.  She lived -- there was maybe five thousand people.  It's a city of twenty thousand.  You would not know that there had ever been Jews there.  Nothing, nothing.  And I was asked to speak because the students there had never seen a Jew.  This was a town where the Jews were over fifty percent.  They were fifty-eight percent of the population.  Never saw a Jew.  And it was an interesting experience.  But in terms of feeling, I'm standing in this town that my mother talked about, I could have been anywhere.  I had no 60:00feelings at all about it.  No, nothing.  It surprised me.  I thought I'd feel something.  I didn't.  I didn't.  And I got a letter from this young woman the day after we left.  Some people went, this man had put up -- they gathered stones from all around that -- the Nazis had simply bulldozed the cemetery, but there were stones from the matseyves [tombstones].  And they would put together something and have a little fenced-in area, sort of like -- and then they put up a monument.  And so, it was like a little virtual cemetery.  And I went there and I looked and it was -- I did have some feelings there when I saw the matseyves and I looked around.  You know, I knew I wouldn't find anything of my 61:00own family there.  There was nothing to be found.  And the day after we left, I got a letter from her and she said somebody went in and put swastikas on everything.  So, why would I go back?  Now, of course, I went, I did go on the trip to the Ukraine again.  And I'll have to tell you, same thing.  Nothing, nothing.  I know other people had different feelings around the trip.  I didn't.  As far as I'm concerned, they could say, Oh, there's a revival!  There's nothing.  It is a cemetery.  It is.  It's pitiful and pathetic and sad.  So, that was it.  I also was in Romania years ago and that was a little 62:00different.  That was in 1973, '72, '7-- something like that.  Ceaușescu was definitely in power then.  But there, I managed to get away.  We were with a group and because I speak Yiddish and there was still, at that time, a lot of Yiddish-speaking people from before the Holocaust who had survived -- so, I managed to visit in a town.  I actually went to, my husband and I, went, in Brașov, to a town -- the town is Brașov.  A city, not a town, really.  And we went to the synagogue and there were a few older men there.  And then I realized afterwards they were looking at me, what was I doing there, 'cause they -- a woman -- and it was true that it was my mother's yortsayt [anniversary of 63:00death].  I had to have an excuse and I said, "It's my mother's yortsayt."  And for me to say Kaddish there, it was, like, oh, my God -- besides my husband, well -- so, while we were there, we met a man, a Mr. Green, and he invited us to his home.  And only because I could speak Yiddish, you see?  And we went to his home and met his wife and there was somebody else there.  And it was a really, really nice experience.  And then, it was the time of Simchas Torah and when we left, we asked what we should bring with us as gifts and they told us ballpoint pens and different things that people really would like.  And so, we did, and then I brought little things for kids.  I said, Well, we'll find children we'll give things to.  I don't even remember what those things were, and also chewing gum.  Said they loved chewing gum.  So, we brought a lot of 64:00that stuff and it was Simchas Torah and I met these people.  I had been waiting to give it somebody and my husband and I decided exactly what we're gonna do.  So, we said, We have this, can we come and give this to you?  They said, We're gonna have Simchas Torah with the children.  And we brought it for them to give to the children.  And when we came back to our group and we told them that we'd been to this family and we're gonna go, said, Could we come with you?  Could we come with you?  We have stuff, too!  So, it was really nice and it was an interesting -- 'cause then we talked and when we left, this woman said to us, as we left, in Yiddish, she says -- I can't remember her exact words, but it's, "Eyn harts filt an andern [One heart feels another]."  (crying) I really am feeling very weepy today.  (laughs) It was sad because she was so happy to find 65:00somebody from outside her world who spoke Yiddish and was listening to her.  And they had their baby, a grandchild, 'cause their son was a doctor and he was serving somewhere.  And the son was gonna go to Israel and they had one son who was already in Israel.  But they couldn't leave.  They had pension and what would they live on?  And they said to us -- the child was there, the baby was there and -- well, not a baby.  A toddler.  And my husband had the camera, he said, "Would you like me to take a picture?  And then we'll send it to you."  And they said yes, and she said, "Ikh vil [I want]" -- I can't remember what she said in Yiddish, but, "Dos kind -- ikh vil im [My child -- I want to get him]" -- and I can't remember.  It's -- change his clothes.  She wanted to put nice 66:00clothes on him for the picture, yeah.  So, we did that and we sent them the picture, yeah.  (laughs) So, that was a kind of nice experience where Yiddish -- you said where did I use Yiddish as an adult?  There's another experience where I used Yiddish as an adult or it came in very -- it was good.  I was able to talk to these people.  I also used Yiddish even when we were on this trip to the Ukraine.  We went to some kind of a performance once night and I sat down, there was a man sitting next to me and he spoke Yiddish.  And so, I mean, I wanted to make conversation and that's the way I could make conversation with him.  And I'm trying to remember where I used Yiddish as an adult.  And also, in Warsaw, we went to a performance of something and there was a woman there who was not Jewish, but she spoke German.  And between my Yiddish, her German, we 67:00managed to have some conversation.

CW:  So, you had some experience with Yiddish as an international language.

SK:  Yes, I did, I did.  Yes, when we traveled when we were younger, even -- you'd go to Mexico, you'd find people who spoke Yiddish.  But, of course, those people are gone mostly, yeah.

CW:  So, what do you think about Yiddish today and what the future --

SK:  Well, think it's mainly an academic language now, primarily.  Somebody asked me that when I was teaching about the language.  I said the language was murdered when the people were murdered, the speakers were murdered.  It's a language that didn't die out.  It might have.  We don't know, in Poland, what people were becoming.  They were using the language of the land.  But would've 68:00been nice to have had a chance to see if that would happen.

CW:  Yeah.  Well, I know you said that you've read a lot of Yiddish literature in translation.

SK:  Well, some.

CW:  And --

SK:  I don't know if it's a lot, but some.  (laughs)

CW:  -- is there anything in particular that you connected to or enjoyed?

SK:  Oh, well, I think -- and this I read after reading Yiddish as well as translation -- is Peretz.  And I guess maybe I'm biased because also, again, I'm talking about my father who felt that Peretz was a much better writer than Sholem Aleichem, (laughs) and he loved Sholem Aleichem.  But Peretz was the writer.

CW:  Yeah.  So, do you have memories of your father reading Yiddish literature?

SK:  Newspaper.

CW:  Newspaper.

SK:  Newspaper.  Yiddish newspapers.

CW:  What paper did you get?  Remember?

SK:  When growing up?  The "Forward."  Then, at one time, there was also a Yiddish paper in Chicago called "The Courier," we got that.  And then, there used to be a weekly called the "Amerikaner."  Don't know how long that lasted, but he got that.  And then, later on, the "Amerikaner" was gone and the "Courier" was gone, so he got the "Forward" and the "Morgen-zhurnal."

CW:  And he would read the literature in there, too?

SK:  Yeah.

CW:  Stories?

SK:  Of course.  He read the literature in there.  I did not.

CW:  Yeah.

SK:  I mean, Yiddish, I can read it but it's not much fun.  It's pretty slow going for me.  (laughter)

CW:  Yeah.  Well, I want to leave some time for the things that you brought, and if there are any other stories that you want to tell.

SK:  I don't have much.  I brought, what did I bring?  I had a little -- it's not even a siddur.  A little prayer book that I had when I was little, because I was brought up -- say the "Modeh ani [morning prayer, lit. "I give thanks"]" in the morning.  But this is -- (laughs) you know what that is?

CW:  I don't, no.

SK:  "Reshis das."

CW:  Oh, yes.

SK:  Do you know what that -- the "Reshis das" is like a little schoolbook.  It's torn.  See, this is how I learned.  It's the same way that you learn 71:00today, I think.

CW:  Oh, that's beautiful.

SK:  "Vo, bo, be, be," that's how you learned.  I don't know how you learned it.

CW:  Yeah.  (laughs) And then, in the back, there's places for you to practice?

SK:  I don't think I have -- yeah, but that's the writing, the script.  The script is back, but I don't think any of my writing is in here.

CW:  This is from Hebrew school?

SK:  Yeah, that was my religious school.  I went, a lot.  (laughs)

CW:  So, can you --

SK:  But I liked it.

CW:  You liked religious school?

SK:  Yeah, I liked it.

CW:  Did you have one of these teachers that would go around with the ruler?

SK:  No, I didn't go -- see, my brothers had that.  I had something totally 72:00different.  There was a woman in Chicago, a Miss Goldberg.  She's not married.  And she had set up to educate Jewish girls.  See, very few girls in my generation had any kind of Jewish education.  And she had or she set up Sabbath schools.  That is, on Saturday afternoon, you'd go into -- there was a shul, was a rickety old shul.  And she had young women, they were but maybe eighteen, and they would read Bible stories to us.  And there was always a moral at the end of the story.  But in addition to that, there was regular school after school, and that's where we learned Hebrew and Yiddish.  And we 73:00had history and on Sunday morning, we had plays and songs.  So, I had a much more positive experience than my brothers.  They had a melamed [Jewish teacher in a traditional school].  They didn't learn history.  All they had to learn was how to daven so that they could be bar mitzvah, you know.  And it was too bad, because I got the good education.  They didn't, even though they knew how to daven fast.  And then, once their bar mitzvah was over, they were finished.  That was the end of it.

CW:  And did you keep going?

SK:  My father wanted it, he would have liked them to go.  But, I mean, not with that experience.

CW:  Yeah.  Do you remember any of the songs that you learned?  Yiddish or Hebrew songs?

SK:  "Eli, eli."  (laughs) You know that one?

CW:  Uh-huh.

SK:  Then holidays.  Mostly holiday songs.  Lot of holiday songs.  I'm trying to remember them.  And I told you, we learned "Tannenbaum."  You know the Christmas carol, "Tannenbaum"?  I didn't know that was what -- you know how I learned it? 

CW:  How?

SK:  "O, Palestine, my Palestine!"

CW:  How did it go after that?  Do you remember?

SK:  No.  (laughs)

CW:  Wow!  (laughter)

SK:  It's pretty funny.  And, of course, I also learned the lullaby, the famous lullaby, which really was from a -- it's from a show, actually.

CW:  Which one?

SK:  Oh, God, that famous one.  "Unter yideles vigele,/shteyt a klor-vays 75:00tsigele,/dos tsigele iz geforn handlen [Beneath Yidele's cradle,/stands a pure-white little goat,/the little goat has gone to the market]."  I'm not gonna sing any more, although I do love to sing.  I mean, I used to sing a lot.  But that's the lullaby that people think goes way back, but actually, it came from a Yiddish show.

CW:  Did you use those for your children?

SK:  I did, I did.  Yeah, I used to sing to my kids.  I also sang -- oh, and my grandkids absolutely loved, (coughs) (singing) "Az der rebbe elimelekh/iz gevorn zeyer freyelkh [When Rabbi Elimelekh/became happy]."  And of course, and then, it -- "gelakht [laughs]" and I'd go, "Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha."  It's a wonderful song.  (laughs) I knew that and I knew -- another song that I knew, (singing) "Yome yome, zing mir a lidele [Yomi, Yomi, sing me a song]."  Trying to think now, what else did I know that?  There was "Az der rebbe elimelekh."  There 76:00was another one like that, also, that was kind of funny.  I can't remember it right now.  It'll come to me sometime.  (laughs) So, those are the songs, yeah.  And I don't know, I guess I enjoyed it because I liked the singing, I liked the plays, I liked to be in the plays.  I liked doing that.

CW:  But were the plays in Yiddish or in English?

SK:  In English.  Played Hannah, the "Seven Sons."  (laughs) Ruth.  No, they were in English, because this was really kind of ad hoc kind of stuff.  These were young girls, make some extra money.  They have good education.  They came from religious families and we had a good time.

CW:  Yeah.  Was there something else you want to show?

SK:  Oh, this was just a picture, not of my parents.  I think it's an interesting picture because this is my mother's father and stepmother.  She left when they -- see, there were two -- not unusual that a mother died and then the father remarried so that -- she had these half-brothers and sisters.  This is half-brother and half-sister.  Now, he of course, was really almost the same age as my brother because there was such an age difference.  And the reason I find this so interesting is it tells you what happened.  Look at them and look at them.  This is parents and children.  Does that look like just one generation?  That shows you what happened when I said it might have changed.  78:00You see the change?

CW:  The time --

SK:  This is taken in Staszów.  This is in Staszów around 1929, 'cause he was leaving for Canada.  Unfortunately, she didn't -- she died.  She had three children, a husband.  They were killed.  Everybody in Staszów was killed.  Well, not everybody, but most of them.  Those who were left, I should say.  Those who could get away got away and those who were left were all killed.  So, that is the change even already in Europe.

CW:  They --

SK:  So, this is what my parents came from, you see?  That's really why it's so -- this is what my parents came from.  Now, if they had the changes here, think of the changes in the United States of me and my brothers.  Of course, my 79:00parents weren't like this.  These are their parents and my father never ever was dressed like this, even in Europe.  He never was dressed like this and my mother certainly wasn't dressed like this.

CW:  Did he dress like the boy in that picture?

SK:  My father?

CW:  Yeah.

SK:  Always wore Western clothes.

CW:  Yeah. 

SK:  He did not wear -- he made a point of that, of telling us.  Not a point.  I mean, it was in part, in telling the stories that, when he went to Staszów before or after he got married, whatever, he had to get a kapote [long coat traditionally worn by observant Jewish men] because, to walk into Staszów in Western clothes, I mean, his father-in-law would have been -- so, you could see the changes.  So, I always say that they went from, I don't know, it's 80:00three generations, I went five generations from that.  (laughter)

CW:  And what do you see in your children and grandchildren?

SK:  Oh, much less difference than between my parents and me.  Much less.  Look, you learn the same things in school, the same songs, some of the same things.

CW:  Do they have a religious education?

SK:  Oh, yeah.  Well, yeah, they all had a religious education, yes.  Some more so than others, but yes.

CW:  Are there any things that you notice different in your grandchildren's generation?

SK:  Oh, my God!

CW:  Well, I mean aside from --

SK:  Everything!

CW:  -- the technology, but -- (laughs)

SK:  Everything!  (laughs) Of course.  I mean, that's the way it always is.

CW:  Right.

SK:  I'm sure that my parents felt the same way.  But certainly, the changes 81:00are huge.  They're always big, but it's really huge.

CW:  Yeah, but in terms of Jewishness, not as much change?

SK:  Oh, yeah.  Oh, of course.  Of course there are changes, yeah, both good and not so good.  (laughter) And the biggest change, of course, is that the rate of intermarriage -- I mean, when I got married, it was -- people just didn't do that.  My God, who would do such a thing?  And people did, of course.  But nobody would announce it.  It was a disgrace and a tragedy.  And then, when my children got married, there were people -- but now, it's unusual 82:00when they marry -- it has to be that way after a while.  There just aren't enough partners.  People keep marrying out.  So, that's the big, big change, that most families have somebody who's not Jewish in their family.

CW:  How do you think that changes things?

SK:  Oh, it changes it a lot, of course.  It all depends on -- I mean, it depends on how it's handled.  Doesn't always have to turn out to be terrible.  But you have to start thinking more about how you're going to handle the 83:00Jewishness.  You can't take it for granted because there's somebody there that is coming in.  If you want that person to transmit the heritage, if not necessarily even live a Jewish life, or to live somewhat of a Jewish life, you have to be conscious of what you're doing and how you do it.  And certainly, screaming and yelling isn't gonna do a good job.

CW:  No.

SK:  You have to appreciate the person.  And you do, you see.  That's what it is.  Not everybody who comes in to a family who's not Jewish -- they're lovely people.  There are lovely people.  And you know when you get to know somebody, you get to love that person. 

CW:  Yeah.  We're reaching the end of our time, but are there any other 84:00stories that you wanted to tell today?

SK:  No, I guess I just will -- what I said at the beginning: I've had a good life, with all -- everybody has ups and downs, but as far as the Jewish, we're really interested more in the Jewish part of it and the Yiddish.  And I'm glad that I grew up knowing Yiddish.  And when I teach Jewish history, when I teach that history of European Jews, I don't see how you can possibly teach that history without knowing Yiddish because it's not just a language, as I said.  And this is what we're talking about today.  And so, for this particular interview, I am talking about that.  And it is -- what can I think of?  Well, 85:00as I said it before, this is their language.  It's no other people's, and it's a language that -- and I became aware of it, even when I got married, because my husband's parents came from Ukraine.  Now, they grew up speaking Yiddish.  I spoke English with them, not Yiddish.  But, you see, there it was: it was the same language.  Different part, far away, but it was the same language.  And regardless of where the Jews were in Eastern Europe, there were no borders as far as Yiddish was concerned, and the fact that this was a language that united these people and it was separate from everybody else.  Nobody else spoke that language.  So, I think, yes, it was very important and I'm glad that I had the 86:00chance to speak the language.  And look how lucky I was that I learned to read it, read it and write it so I could get my language requirement for the master's, yeah.  So, it was important, yeah.

CW:  And what advice do you have for your grandchildren?

SK:  General advice, you mean?

CW:  Yeah.

SK:  Oh, my goodness.  (laughs) How long do we have?  Actually, not a lot, because most of the things that I would tell them, some of it they already know, 'cause you do know these things.  And some of it, they'll have to learn.  I guess, in terms of Jewishness, well, they know how I feel.  There's nothing I can tell them.  They know it.  And I think they, as far as I can see right now, it is important for them to remain Jewish, to be Jewish.  What will happen 87:00in the future, I don't know.  But right now, that is the case.  And I guess what advice, you mean general advice, you mean life advice?

CW:  Yeah.

SK:  I would say be flexible.  And it's a balance.  Be determined but be flexible, because you never know what life is gonna toss at you.  And as far as values, they know the values.  Be kind.  Be kind.  I don't know, I think, as I said, that people kind of know, people really know what they have to do.  And 88:00you make mistakes in life and you just have to keep going.

CW:  Well, thank you so much for sharing with me.

SK:  Okay.  Oh, my gosh, that's going to be terrible, with all my crying.

CW:  Oh, no.  (laughter)

SK:  I'll probably hate it.

[END OF INTERVIEW]