ALICE AHART ORAL HISTORY

ALLIE BRUDNEY:This is Allie Brudney, and today is November 7th, 2011. I am here at the Yiddish Book Center in Amherst, Massachusetts with Alice Ahart, and we are going to record an interview as part of the Yiddish Book Center's Wexler Oral History Project. Alice, do I have your permission to record this interview?

ALICE AHART:Yes.

AB:Thank you. Okay. So, let's begin. Can you tell me briefly what you know about your family background?

AA:Well, not really a whole lot. Both my parents came from Europe: my father, from Poland; my mother, from Romania. They met in Windsor, Ontario, Canada, and 1:00married there. And I was born there -- a very long time ago. (laughs) One of the things that has always bothered me was the fact that there were a lot of questions I should have asked but I never did, until when I thought of them, it was really too late. Both my parents always talked about the ocean voyage. My mother was certain she was going to die because she was so seasick and I guess it was such a rough journey. And that's what she talked about -- and how some young man on the boat insisted that she eat some salted herring and that she would survive and be okay. What I don't know is how she got from the little 2:00village in Romania to whatever port it was she sailed from, nor do I know how she got from Halifax, where she landed, to Windsor, Ontario. And we never talked about that. And then, you know, I just sort of wondered about it. I also don't know how my father got from Poland to his ship, except I do know his was a Cunard Line. And somewhere, I think, my sister has a photo postcard of the passengers on the ship. What he talked about was the young children who were traveling alone. But really, that's all I know. My father's family was primarily in New York. My mother's family was in Detroit. Both of them wanted to come to 3:00the United States, but by the time their families had the money or whatever for the ticket, the quotas were closed, and the only way they could come was to come to Canada. So for them, being in Canada was always a temporary thing. Their plan, you know, was to get to the goldene medine [golden land], which is, of course, the US. So, that's about all there is that I can tell.

AB:So, you said that your other family was in New York and Detroit?

AA:Yes.

AB:Do you know any more about them?

AA:We still have contact, of course, with them. Most of my -- my father had two sisters and his mother in New York, and I know their descendants. Anyone else -- 4:00he had a brother who was back in Poland --- 'course, he didn't survive -- and any other relatives didn't survive. The same thing was true with my mother. She had two brothers and a sister in Detroit. And some step-brothers and sisters went to South America. I have no idea who they were, what hap-- you know, I've had no contact with them. And whatever other family they had in Europe was wiped out in the Holocaust. So we're really a very small family. But it was my mother's sister in Detroit and my father's sister in New York -- my aunt Clara 5:00and then my aunt Yetta -- who were the ones who were determined to bring them over. And it was still very difficult. My sister and I, of course, were born in Canada, and we were Canadian citizens. And when this whole process started, to come to the United States -- you know, what's supposed to be a three-minute ride across the Ambassador Bridge -- I was fourteen, my sister was ten, and we were issued visas immediately as desirable (laughs) aliens. My parents, even though they had lived in Canada for this very long time, and I think were citizens, had to come in under the Polish and Romanian quota, so it took a good while to do that. They had to have sponsors. So I have very mixed feelings about all of the 6:00immigration stuff that's going on now. But it took about a year -- more than a year. I also have to say that I did have a younger brother who unfortunately passed away at the age of six in the year prior to our moving, so it was a very hectic time for our family.

AB:I'd like to come back to that time, but can we jump backwards to your childhood in Windsor?

AA:Yes.

AB:And so would you say you grew up in a Jewish home?

AA:Yes, I did. You know, my family kept kosher. After I grew up, I realized, we were poor. (laughs) I didn't recognize it at the time, but our funds were very limited. My parents were not educated. But they valued education, and that was 7:00one of their big hopes for their children, because everything, you know, could be accomplished in the New World, and so they pushed us for education, which we got. As a child, the majority of our contacts were with other Jewish immigrant families. And when I read Aaron Lansky's book, it brought back so many memories when he told those stories of -- I've forgotten what he called it in the book, but I remember it as the landsleit [plural of landsman (fellow countrymen)] organizations -- the immigrants, the social organization that they had, and the social life was really centered around those organizations. And I know in the 8:00summertime there were picnics and outings and so on that we went to, but it seemed to me that we got together, you know, almost on a weekly basis. And I just remember sitting around somewhere and listening to all of these voices, with the Yiddish language, and all of these funny arguments between the Litvaks [Lithuanian Jews] and the Galitsyaners [Galician Jews]. (laughs) And I knew that I was a Galitsyaner, but I didn't really know (laughs) what that meant. But yeah, our social life, and so on, was really involved around that kind of activity. I don't know if that answers your question.

AB:Yeah. So at these activities with the landsleit -- could you describe more of a picnic or an outing?

AA:A summer picnic would be in the park, and they would have things set up where you bought food, and there were games for the children. And sometimes it was out at a lake. And one of my father's jobs was, he had a stand on the city market, so he had a truck. And long before there were seatbelts (laughs) and what have you, I remember that all the kids piled into the back of the truck and either sat on the floor bed or wooden orange crates -- orange crates were wooden in those days -- and when I think back, I thought, My gosh, that was really a dangerous thing to do! (laughs) And then, you know, we'd spread out blankets. And we ate a lot, which is usual. And I remember one time my father letting me 10:00have as many hot dogs as I wanted, and my mother objecting to it -- and she was right, because I ended up getting quite ill (laughs) and upchucking a lot of those hot dogs. And then, you know, there were weddings, which were not as elaborate as some of -- well, no, I guess some of them were -- when one of my cousins in Detroit got married, I remember that she had six or eight bridesmaids and -- you know, so. But it was just -- I don't know, just a very quiet, nice feeling -- you know, a feeling of having a sense of belonging and knowing who 11:00you were.

AB:Were there any other activities or anything that you and your family did? Were there outings -- other outings or cultural or religious observances?

AA:We observed Shabbat and the holidays, but in a very -- more simplified way, I would say, than the way in which I would participate in a seder now -- would be more extended ritual than what we did.

AB:Can you describe a typical Shabbat dinner?

AA:Well, it usually started with the wonderful chopped liver, and then the chicken soup, and usually then the chicken which had been cooked in the soup 12:00with a vegetable, and probably a fruit compote for dessert. Simple.

AB:Who would be there?

AA:Just our immediate family. Because, you know, all of our relatives were across the river -- many of them.

AB:So do you remember what you would do for seders and other Jewish holidays?

AA:I guess what I remember most about Passover was the fact that -- like, in retrospect, that I recognized, we were people of limited means. My father always collected money from the other vendors, I guess, on the market, to make sure 13:00that people -- that they purchased Passover things for other families. I guess that's why I didn't think we were so limited. But I remember the Passover, with the cleaning of the house and the changing of the dishes, and especially, my mother making a sponge cake every day (laughs) with twelve eggs and whipping the egg -- the whites with a wire whisk. And when the cake was in the oven, we had to tiptoe so that it wouldn't fall. And then we managed to eat it all so that she would make another one (laughs) the next day. So every day of Passover, we had a sponge cake. And then I remember my father bringing home a whole case of 14:00eggs. And then, you know, selling the chometz and all that stuff.

AB:Can you describe selling the chometz?

AA:Well, my father took care of that. I just knew that he left the house, and (laughs) -- you know. I remember going just once, which was enough for me, to go to the shoykhet [ritual slaughterer] with him, and I saw them slaughter the chickens. And that -- (laughs) I didn't need to do that again.

AB:Do you want to describe it, or --

AA:No. (laughs) And I guess a number of years ago, I came across a children's book called "The Carp in the Bathtub." I think the author is a Barbara Cohen. And I had to buy it for my children, because we used to have a carp in the 15:00bathtub -- because my father would not eat fish unless he saw it alive. Now, how in the world my mother ever brought home this big fish from the market I never knew, but we'd come home from school and there would be a carp in the bathtub. And they were kind of mean -- the carp. I mean, we only had one at a time. And then after he had seen it in the bathtub, then she would take care of it and -- fix it. And (laughs) -- so anyway, I thought we were kind of peculiar, but apparently, other people had carp in the bathtub.

AB:Did you help to (UNCLEAR)--

AA:No.

AB:-- or anything?

AA:No. (laughs)

AB:Did you watch your mother?

AA:No. I would not. It would be like the chickens, I guess.

AB:So you've been describing a fair amount of food.

AA:Yes.

AB:Is there any other food -- like, from Hanukkah, or breaking fast on Yom Kippur?

AA:Well, latkes, really, for Hanukkah. Yeah.

AB:And did you help make them? Did you watch your mother make them?

AA:I watched my mother make them. I've never been able to make them to taste like hers. My sister comes a little close to it, but I have never managed to learn that skill.

AB:What was a typical night of Hanukkah?

AA:Again, very simple. I mean, nowadays, people do elaborate things with gifts every night and so on. And it would just be, you know, lighting the candles and 17:00having the latkes and applesauce or sour cream -- you know, very simple. Maybe we would get chocolates or something, but we never did have presents. You know.

AB:Is there any other holidays that you would like to touch on?

AA:Not really.

AB:Okay. So what language was spoken in your home?

AA:Well, my parents spoke Yiddish. And all of their friends spoke Yiddish. They claimed that my first language was Yiddish. I don't remember that. They say that I didn't speak English until I went to school, but I don't have any way (laughs) of verifying that. But we always answered in English. And I think that the big 18:00push at that time -- after all, you know -- you may not realize it, but I'm 79 years old. (laughs) Back then, I think the big push was to become part of the New World. And certainly, when I was in grade school, many of the children were like me, who were first generation, and their parents were immigrants from England and Scotland and Poland and all over. And I think the philosophy of the school district was to get rid of the other cultures and turn them into 19:00Canadians -- or Americans, whatever the case might be.

AB:So you mentioned school. Can you tell me about your lower school, middle school education?

AA:Well, I went to what you'd call now elementary school. In Canada at that time, it was grades one through eight, and then you went to high school. And by the time I got to eighth grade, my family was in the process of moving. So then when I came to the States, I went into junior high school -- and it was a whole different world than what I had experienced -- and then went on to high school.

AB:So we'll get back to that. So who were your friends in lower school? Who was 20:00in your neighborhood?

AA:A mix of kids. The street that I lived on, there were Jewish families and a lot of Catholic families, and most of the Catholic children went to parochial schools. And there were Italian -- it was the real melting pot kind of thing.

AB:Did you have interactions with the non-Jewish kids on the block?

AA:Yes. Some. More when we were in school. And then it was primarily Protestant children -- I don't remember any Catholic children being in my grade school.

AB:So you also mentioned that you attended the I.L. Peretz school?

AA:Yeah.

AB:Can you tell me about that?

AA:Originally -- I don't remember how old I was -- my father decided that I should go to a Talmud Torah, and he enrolled me in this. And I didn't care for it at all. It was dark and it was gloomy. And it was rote -- repetition with no explanation. And if you asked questions (laughs) you got your knuckles rapped with a ruler. So I don't think I was there for more than, I don't know, two or three weeks, maybe a little longer. 'Cause I do remember writing Hebrew letters -- or copying Hebrew letters, and told my father that I really didn't want to 22:00go. So he said, "If you don't want to go, you don't have to go." And then some friends -- a couple -- and I don't remember their name -- came to the house, like, one Sunday afternoon and talked to my parents about the fact that they were starting an I.L. Peretz school and that they really should enroll my sister and I. And so I don't know how long after that, but we started going. And we would go, like, Monday through Thursday after school, and then Sunday morning. And I just loved it. It was just -- I don't know -- I don't think my s-- I've never asked my sister what she thought about it, but she was four years younger than me, so she may not have started at the time I did. But I just loved it. I loved learning the language. I loved the reading. I loved the songs. And it was 23:00a very special part of my life. And when we made the move, that ended my Yiddish education.

AB:So can you describe a class, or what you would learn?

AA:Well, it was pretty much academics, you know? Of course, no math, but learning the Yiddish script and reading and cultural -- we learned about holidays, but more from a cultural viewpoint than a religious viewpoint. I remember making a diorama of Moses in the rushes, cutting up green construction paper. And then having assemblies and singing songs and learning songs about the 24:00different holidays. And it was just a very enjoyable time. And then they formed a Habonim group and I joined that. My -- for a while was a very staunch Zionist, that I was going to go live on a kibbutz in (laughs) Israel, you know? And this was before, of course, Israel was developed. But -- so it was just a very warm environment. And I just loved being engulfed in Yiddishkayt. And I loved the 25:00language. I loved the rhythm of it and the sound of it. And I can still hear it inside my head, but what comes out of my mouth doesn't sound as good. (laughs) So that was a very, very happy time in my life.

AB: Did you have any mentors there, or any influences?

AA:I think the last classroom teacher that I had, the one who was responsible for giving me the book that I've lost, was just very special.

AB:What was she like?

AA:He. It was a -- I don't remember that we had any women teachers. But that was a long time ago, and I'm not really sure if my memories are that clear. So -- 26:00but the whole I.L. Peretz thing and the Workmen's Circle and --

AB:So you mentioned the Workmen's Circle. Were your family involved with it?

AA:Only peripherally, I think. Because I think the I.L. Peretz schools were started by the Workmen's Circle, but I'm not really sure about that. But we used to read about the Workmen's Circle activities in the "Forward." And we got the Sunday -- I think we only got the weekend paper, but it had the photogravure section, the sepia-toned pictures, and it would show all of these different Workmen's Circle -- and I can remember reading about -- you know, I had no idea who these people were -- because they were mostly in New York, not in Canada. 27:00But it was interesting to read about them. And I guess that I would have to say that a lot of my -- what's the word I want to use -- I guess political leanings came from my exposure to things in the I.L. Peretz school. You know, we used to sing songs like "Ale mentshn zaynen brider [All men are brothers]." (laughs) And just -- social justice and doing good works, I think, came out of my experience 28:00in the I.L. Peretz school, and also from my father's example.

AB:Do you remember any of the other songs that you would sing?

AA:(laughs) I don't remember all of it, but it was one that we used to sing around Purim that I thought was really funny. And I don't have a singing voice. (sings) "Yakhne dvozhe fort in shtot, s'halt zikh in eyn pakn./Zi darf oyf purim koyfn mel, homentashn bakn./Hop, mayne homentashn! Hop, mayne vayse!/Hop, mit mayne homentashn hot pasirt a mayse./S'geyt a regn, s'geyt a shney, s'kapet fun 29:00di dekher./Yakhne trogt shoyn korn mel in a zakh mit lekher. [Yakhne Dvozhe goes into the city, she's getting ready to go./She has to buy flour for Purim, to bake the hamantaschen./Oh, my hamantaschen! Oh, you little white ones!/Oh, what happened with my hamantaschen is a story./It's raining, it's snowing, it's pouring down from the roofs./Yakhne has the cornmeal now, in a bag full of holes.]" (laughs) And then the chorus goes on again, and then the last stanza is something about, she's carrying shalakh-mones [gifts sent to the homes of family, friends, and neighbors on Purim] and halb-roy, halb-farbrente [half-raw, half-burnt]. So I don't know why that song stuck in my head, but it did.

AB:That's wonderful. So we were talking about political leanings and how the I.L. Peretz school influenced you. So what was your family? What political ideology did you get from your family?

AA:Well, I think very humanitarian, social justice -- and then on my own, when I came to the States and grew up and became an American citizen, I think I'm more 30:00involved because I'm an American by choice. And it disturbs me greatly when people don't vote, you know, so I've done voter registration and I have campaigned for various political figures -- political persons.

AB:I want to stick just with your childhood for a little longer and then we'll move on, but -- was your family involved in a synagogue?

AA:In Canada, they were. It was a small shul, which was Orthodox. They belonged to a small Orthodox synagogue. (laughs) I laugh because it always upset me that the women had to sit upstairs in the bal-- you know -- and they had all these 31:00rickety chairs. And the main sanctuary had these beautiful wooden pews, and the bima was in the center. And so as a child, I used to go downstairs and sit with my father. (laughs) And I guess that was okay. The gentleman who sat in the pew next to him was an older man whose name I don't remember who taught me to sniff snuff. (laughs) So --

AB:(laughs) Yeah, so then you moved to Detroit. Did your family --

AA:Pardon?

AB:When you moved to Detroit, did your family join another synagogue?

AA:They joined a Conservative synagogue, which I did not really attend. I was 32:00very busy with school and with -- I went to a special science high school, which meant I had to travel on the bus and so on. And then I went away to college, and I never really lived in Detroit again, except to visit.

AB:So now that we've gone to Detroit, (UNCLEAR) -- what differences did you notice between Windsor and Detroit, between Canada and America?

AA:It was sort of like the country mouse going to the city (laughs) and meeting the city mouse. It was really a tremendous cultural shock. The kids were -- I don't know what to say -- they weren't really more grown up, but they were 33:00certainly much more sophisticated. And, you know, girls were wearing makeup and all of this stuff. And it was just a faster, larger community. You didn't have the same sense of neighborhood. You had to travel to see friends or relatives -- you know, because people -- (UNCLEAR) was much larger. And it initially was a very difficult time for my family, 'cause we made the move in 1946, around May or June -- early June -- and the war was not completely over yet. Housing was at a premium; you couldn't find it. Once we got our visas, I didn't understand all 34:00of the things involved, but we had to be out -- we had to make the move by a certain time. And we had to get rid of all of our -- most of our furniture and stuff because we had no place to live when we got there. My aunt Yetta had a triplex, and we were supposed to move into the small apartment in it, but it was occupied by the wife of a military person, so that person could not be evicted. So when we got over there, the family split up. My father went to stay with uncle Jackson; my mother stayed with aunt Yetta; and my sister and I went to 35:00stay with uncle Nate and aunt Nettie, which was not very comfortable for us. And it had taken us eight hours to cross the bridge -- the Ambassador Bridge -- into Detroit, because of the immigration people. Why we had to sit there for all those hours, I don't know. But my cousin George had come with his car and a little trailer, and we had piled all our belongings in that and had come over. So then my mother and sister and I ended up going to Pittsburgh to spend the summer with another aunt until we could find -- have a place to live. So it was very distraught and disruptive. So when we finally had a place and I got into 36:00the ninth grade, I mean, my focus was all on the school -- and trying to adjust to this fast life in America. (laughs)

AB:What was the school like?

AA:It was a very good school, but, again, the setup was different than what I was used to. But it was okay.

AB:Can you describe it?

AA:Well, I think it was a typical junior -- or, you know, middle school -- junior high school, I guess we called it -- experience. It was the idea that you had a class schedule and you traveled, you know, from room to room, rather than being in one room and so on. So that was different. But I got involved in some 37:00school activities and worked in the library, which I loved. And so, you know, I can't say that it was really dreadful. (laughs)

AB:What did you like about working in the library?

AA:Being among books. Being among books. Yeah.

AB:Did you notice any differences between the Detroit Jewish community and the Windsor?

AA:I just didn't feel a part of it. I felt, you know, it was so big and spread out. And, you know, I think my parents' focus was on trying to get established and making a living.

AB:So you said that your mom's family was in -- one of your parents' families 38:00was in Detroit?

AA:Yes.

AB:So what was it like to have much more family around you?

AA:We didn't get to visit with them and see them. I don't want to go on record with this (laughs) but there were the usual, you know, types of squabbles -- and this person's not speaking to that person and you can't go see this person because that per-- you know. So.

AB:All right. So, one more question about your childhood, and then we'll sort of move on to adult life. Do you have an idea of what values or practices your parents were trying to pass on to you?

AA:(pauses) They just wanted us to be good people, do the right thing. And my 39:00father always talked about how important having good character and a good reputation and a good name -- you know.

AB:Okay. So let's fast-forward to today. Can you give me a snapshot of your life?

AA:(laughs) Well, I'm a retired speech language pathologist. I live in Memphis. When I was in Illinois, I became involved with a Reform temple there and was in an adult b'nai mitzvah class, so I had a bat mitzvah as an older adult. And then 40:00when I moved to Memphis, I became a member of Temple Israel there, and have been very involved in the temple activities.

AB:Could you tell me what it was like to become a b'nai mitzvah as an adult?

AA:It was a very satisfactory thing. I felt very good about it. It was one of the things which would not have been available to me growing up. And I guess it was a way for me to make a statement of being a Jew.

AB:What was it like? What was the actual ceremony like?

AA:Well, there were a group of us, all adults, and we conducted the Friday night 41:00service, and each of us was responsible for a different portion of it. And we each had to give a little talk. And it was really very lovely. And the congregation was very supportive -- had a big oneg [reception] for us afterwards. So --

AB:Do you remember what you gave your talk about?

AA:(pauses) Partially. (pauses) It was really just reaffirming who I was and feeling good about the community's support. It was also a difficult time, 42:00because my mother was terminally ill at the time and unable to come to the event. And my daughters, who were going to come, instead went to spend the weekend with my mother -- which I felt was the right thing for them to do. So, you know, that's the way life goes.

AB:Yeah, but so you've been involved in a lot of synagogues since then, or --

AA:Yes.

AB:-- active --

AA:In the Reform --

AB:How has that been important to you?

AA:Again, for a sense of community, and being involved in social justice activities, and trying to promote interfaith understanding with our -- Temple 43:00Israel is the oldest temple in -- the oldest synagogue in Tennessee. It was the first Jewish house of worship chartered by the state of Tennessee, and it's something like 157, 58 years old. And it's very known for its community outreach. And I feel very comfortable there.

AB:Can you describe the Jewish community in Tennessee?

AA:It's amazing, and very surprising, because I did not really think about there being Jews in the South. And it's -- we're everywhere, but it's been a real 44:00learning experience in Tennessee. I joined the Southern Jewish Historical Society -- that's not its -- I don't think I've got the name right, but -- because I wanted to learn about Jews in the South. And there are people in our congregation who are fifth and sixth generation. So it's just unbelievable. It's really a learning experience.

AB:So what do you do with the synagogue? How are you active?

AA:Well, I belong to the Sisterhood. The temple has a Judaica museum, and I'm on the board of the museum. And I'm a docent for the museum. And I send out the 45:00cards for people who make contributions to our -- it used to be called the floral fund, but now they've give it the -- garden and beautification? I can't ever remember what it's called; I just call it the floral fund. But, you know, when people make donations, I send out the cards acknowledging the donations. We have a group of women who are part of the Mother Bear Project, where we knit bears for children with AIDS in Africa. It was started by a woman in Minneapolis, and our group got started several years ago. And I am not one of the rapid knitters, but I plug away at it. And we're reaching two thousand bears 46:00that have been sent to children with AIDS. I thought at first, Why are we sending bears? Why aren't we sending clothing or medicines or medical supplies? Until I saw the photos and the letters of these children, many of whom -- or most of whom -- are orphans, and who have never had anything that was theirs alone. And these bears are the only object that they can claim for their own. And we even had a letter from a ten-year-old child who knew he was dying, saying that he wanted to be buried with his bear. So I knit bears.

AB:That's pretty amazing.

AA:So --

AB:To jump to Yiddish. How do you think, if at all, that Yiddish as a language has influenced you?

AA:I don't know that it's influenced me; it's just a part of me. And I'm supportive of what's happening here. Because I think we're sort of going back to the pure Yiddish, not -- well, I won't use that word -- not the way it's -- I can't find a word without saying the word I don't want to use (laughs) -- but 48:00the way comedians and so forth -- (pauses) well, I can't think of any other word. (laughs) Anyway, it's not the Yiddish that I hear in my head; it's vulgarized, in a sense.

AB:Do you think Yiddish has influenced your Jewish identity in any way?

AA:Oh, I think so. I think so.

AB:Any idea how?

AA:No, I can't.

AB:Do you think your relationship -- or how has your relationship and interest in Yiddish evolved throughout your lifetime?

AA:I think just being exposed to it in that immigrant environment -- also through the newspaper. Until we moved to Detroit, Sunday afternoons, we always 49:00had this family time, where my father read aloud from the "Forwards" -- you know, the novel or whatever the story -- the serial story. And, of course, "A Bintel Brief," you know, with all (laughs) the trials and tribulations, you know? And also as a child, when I was growing up, the first theater I ever saw was Yiddish theater; the first film I ever saw was a Yiddish film. So, you know, there used to be traveling theater groups that came to Windsor, and they would perform in the larger synagogue, you know, in the social hall. And there were 50:00professional touring companies. And the same thing -- the movies would be shown. I think the first Shakespeare I saw was "King Lear" in Jewish -- in Yiddish. And so there's that whole wealth of art and culture that's there -- that's always been a part of my life.

AB:Can you describe the first theater, film, show you saw in Yiddish?

AA:I think it was "The Dybbuk," which I didn't understand. (laughs) And it was very scary. And I remember walking home with my mother and father, and it was a dark night, and it was really (laughs) very scary. And I kept trying to get my 51:00mother to explain to me: "What is this dybbuk thing? I don't understand it." My mother, bless her (laughs) soul, was a very superstitious woman, and of course she didn't want to talk about it, and so she was just telling me, "Sha, sha [Quiet, quiet]." You know, and so on. But then, the most fun film I've ever seen, I think, was Molly Picon in "Yidl mitn fidl [Yidl with her fiddle]." I just remember that. And I remember some of the shows that I saw, even as a youngster, I thought were so melodramatic, you know, and so over-the-top in the acting. I remember one -- I don't remember the title, but here was this elderly woman who had finally come to America, and she was sitting in the outer office 52:00of the HIAS, you know, and she couldn't find her son -- he had left for America years before and had never written to her. And then this elegant man walks in with a fur-trimmed overcoat and she recognizes it's her son. You know, it was -- but it was -- it also established a lifelong interest in theater for me. So --

AB:So what other theater -- what do you like?

AA:Pardon?

AB:What theater do you like? What kind?

AA:Oh, pretty much all kind. So -- yeah.

AB:All right. I'm gonna try to keep going so that we get through this (UNCLEAR).

AA:(UNCLEAR).

AB:We're good right now. What has been most important for you to transmit to 53:00generations after you about Jewish identity?

AA:Mm (pauses) -- that's kind of a difficult thing for me to answer, because I married someone who was not Jewish, so my children are -- I guess sometimes I tell them they're half-breeds, but they consider themselves very Jewish. And I did not provide them with what I would consider a real Jewish upbringing, but culturally, I think they do have that sense. I don't know if I would have done 54:00things differently or not. They're both very accomplished people in their own right, and they celebrate the holidays, even though they're both married to non-Jewish individuals. So.

AB:How did you -- did you celebrate holidays while your children were growing up?

AA:Yes.

AB:How did that -- what were those celebrations like?

AA:Again, more cultural than religious, I would have to say.

AB:Can you describe any -- like, a seder or Hanukkah or breaking fast?

AA:Actually, my oldest daughter, Shoshanna, does a better seder than I ever did. 55:00And her -- she lives in Germany. She's an artist, and she's married to a German artist. And Andreas is not German -- or not Jewish, but he conducts a pretty good seder, let me tell you. (laughs) And they're -- you know, they're really quite good at it. And people vie to be invited to their house, because I think it's the only seder in the city of Eichstätt. So people are very interested in attending and learning about it. So I think that's a good outcome, perhaps.

AB:To what extent do you think that language plays a role in transmission between generations?

AA:Well, as a speech language pathologist, I think language is very important. And in -- you know, for communication, and being able to express yourself clearly and adequately and -- is very important. (pauses) I'm sorry that my 57:00Yiddish has kind of slipped away -- my ability to speak it. It's very funny, several years ago, I came across a Yiddish traveler's guide -- you know, like, French for travelers -- there's one for Yiddish. And people are saying, Where would you use this? (laughs) But I have it. (laughs) And it's very intriguing. I mean, apparently, at a time, there might have been an opportunity for someone to use this. So I guess I can't really be very articulate myself about what I think the role of language is.

AB:I think that was pretty articulate. What does Yiddish mean to you today?

AA:(sighs) My heritage. My background. The literature, the culture. The memory of -- it's still important to me. So -- it's just a part of me. It's just a part of me.

AB:I'm sure you've heard that people say, you know, that Yiddish is dead or dying. What do you think about that?

AA:Well, I don't think that's true. And certainly, what you're accomplishing 59:00here is putting a whole different turn to that. I guess you could say you're resuscitating it here. (laughs) I think that the fact that there are Jewish studies showing up all across the country, there's an interest in the literature again -- it's rolling along. I can't say enough about what Aaron Lansky has done.

AB:What do you see as the future of Yiddish?

AA:(pause) I don't know. I think it's in a revival period now. Whether people 60:00will ever use it to converse again, I don't know. I don't know, you know, whether there will be enclaves of people getting together to converse in Yiddish. I know that even in Memphis, at times, there is a little grouping of people getting together for a Yiddish club, where they'll practice Yiddish or tell each other stories that they remember, or maybe even read things. But that 61:00kind of comes and goes. I don't know if there's a stimulus for that. I think it's going to be up to younger people, not old folks like me.

AB:So we're nearing the end. Is there anything else that you'd like to add?

AA:No, except to urge everybody to please join (laughs) -- become a member of the Yiddish Center. And I wish I were in a position where I could be a big donor, but I'm not. So -- but I appreciate what's being done here.

AB:So, the two last questions. Do you have a favorite Yiddish word or phrase?

AA:No, I don't think so. No.

AB:And, what advice do you have for future generations?

AA:(pauses) Just learn about your -- the art and culture of -- and heritage of Yiddish. There's such richness there that -- it shouldn't be lost. Yeah.

AB:Okay. Thank you very much.

[END OF INTERVIEW]