MALCA HUBNER ORAL HISTORY

CHRISTA WHITNEY: So this is Christa Whitney, and today is December 15th, 2011. I am here at the Montreal Jewish Public Library with Malca Sussman Hubner, and we're going to record an interview as part of the Yiddish Book Center's Wexler Oral History Project. Malca, do I have your permission to record the interview?

MALCA HUBNER: Yes, you do.

CW:Thank you. So as a place to start, could you tell me briefly what you know about your family background?

MH:Well, my parents came from the Ukraine. And they emigrated here to Montreal in -- around 1929. And then they were married in Montreal. And I was born and bred in Montreal and grew up here. And, you know, the Jewish community was much 1:00closer-knit then than it is now. And I wouldn't say we lived in a ghetto, but the neighborhood was much smaller. And we knew people much more intimately than we do now. And my parents enrolled me in a Jewish day school, the "Jewish People's School," where we learned English, French only starting in grade four, Yiddish, and a smattering of Hebrew. And of course when Israel became a state in 1948 -- I had already graduated the day school -- they instituted a lot more Hebrew, and the Yiddish sort of went down. But --

CW:I just want to ask, before we get into your education, do you have any idea what your parents' life was like, what they remember from the Ukraine?

MH:Yes, they -- I'm sorry, in a way, that we didn't tape anything. They lived in a small shtetl [small town in Eastern Europe with a Jewish community]. And my mother was very good friends with a -- who is now my aunt, and it was her 2:00brother that they fell in love with. And their family, my father's family, came to America much before my mother did, because it was at the time when they were recruiting people into the Red Army, and they wanted to be sure that my uncle, who was the oldest -- that that didn't happen to him. So they came here earlier. And my poor mother tells me that she cried and cried and cried, and then finally her father said, "Okay, you'll go to America." And it's really something, because she never saw her parents again. Her father died before the war, and her mother and the two brothers who were left in the Ukraine were killed at Babi Yar. She had a brother who was one of the early chalutzim [Hebrew: pioneers] that went to Israel in 1921. And those were, you know, the stories that we know 3:00about them. Now --

CW:So they met before they came over?

MH:They met before. My mother came here only because my father was here. So who knows what might have happened after. Now when I was growing up, my parents were speaking Yiddish and English, because they went to night school here, and they learned English. But I only spoke Yiddish until I started playing outside with my little friends, and then I started speaking English. My mother tells me that she remembers me coming in and saying, "What does 'teapot' mean? What does 'a wagon' mean?" But by the time I went to kindergarten, I spoke English perfectly. And then, of course, I only spoke to my parents (laughs) in English.

CW:Are there any Yiddish phrases or words that you particularly remember from your parents -- you know, things that remind you of them, phrases they would use?

MH:Well, they spoke, you know, Russian amongst themselves. And I learned a few Russian words, because I knew when they were talking about me. But other phrases that really stand out? Not really. It was just the general language that we spoke. You know, I remember sometimes things that weren't so nice. My mother used to call me a "paskudste moyd [troublemaking young woman]" -- that means, like, "You're really a brat" (laughs) or something. And that sort of sticks in my mind.

CW:Can you describe a little bit the home, if you sort of think back on that time, what did your home look like? What were the main features of the home?

MH:Well, we lived in a very small apartment. It was like what they call two double parlors. And I was eight years old by the time my sister was born, 5:00because then my parents always hoped that they would move into a bigger house. And they finally did when I was about nineteen going on twenty. And then the next year I got married and I moved out. But it was -- you know, we were all sort of like in the same milieu -- like we say now, we were poor but we didn't know it. We were happy. And maybe it's a good thing that we didn't realize that we didn't have a lot of things. Because where we lived, most of the people were in the same bracket.

CW:And was there a political atmosphere growing up?

MH:No, not really. I mean, we lived through the war, but I was too young, really, to realize what it all meant. I mean, I was ten years old when the war ended. So, no, not really.

CW:And then I know you went to folkshul [Yiddish secular school], but which one 6:00was it? And --

MH:It was down on Waverly -- Waverly and Fairmount.

CW:And what do you -- I mean, can you -- did you like school?

MH:Yes. Yes, I did. And it was a very homey atmosphere in that school. It was really, really great. And maybe because we were there and had to handle the four languages, we found that when we got into high school, we really didn't miss out on anything. I used to be envious of some of the other kids that I knew, 'cause they had what they called home economics in school and they would learn cooking and sewing. We didn't have time for any of that. But we really had a great time in school, and we loved it, and we did all k-- we had wonderful teachers and we did history pageants and assemblies and we really had a great time. And we really -- it was not a religious school. There were others that taught more religion. I found, though, that when I started working in the library, I learned more sometimes about Jewish religion than I did in school, because it was a 7:00Labor Zionist school. But we had a wonderful time. And they really imbued in us a sense of Yiddishkayt and Zionism and Israel. And I thought it was a wonderful experience.

CW:Looking back on your childhood, were there values that you felt your parents were trying to pass down to you?

MH:I think they were trying to pass down to us that we should be nice to people. I sometimes feel that my mother sometimes kept us a little subdued. She didn't want us to show anger, and that, I find, sometimes was wrong, but my father was more emotional. He would profess his love more for us -- and I know that my mother loved us, that was sure, but she was one of those that wanted to keep things on a low key, you know? Like we were saying, he was an optimist and she was a pessimist. He would sometimes throw forth an idea, and she would throw cold water on it, you know? But the values were that we should be good and we 8:00should be nice -- and, you know --

CW:And what about -- did you celebrate the holidays?

MH:Oh, yes. We weren't a religious family, but definitely all the traditions, all the holidays. Yeah.

CW:What was your favorite?

MH:What was our favorite holiday? I think it was Passover, because we loved going to the seders. You know, here in the diaspora, we have two, so it was -- one night it was at our house, and the other night it was at my uncle -- my father's brother's house. And that was always very nice and festive. And Chanukah wasn't like it is now. It was just Chanukah gelt -- you know what that means -- it was just money. We didn't go overboard with gifts like we do now in the almost Christmas tradition, you know? Yeah.

CW:Are there any special foods that you had in the home growing up -- family recipes or anything?

MH:Well, my mother made -- she wasn't a great cook -- and neither am I, by the way -- but she made very good knishes, potato knishes -- that we loved. And she 9:00would make a very nice apple pie. And then it was all, the chicken and the chicken soup and the gefilte fish; it was the traditional Jewish, Yiddish foods that we had.

CW:Many of the Jewish cultural leaders have actually come from Montreal, and I'm wondering if you have any theory about -- is there something unique about the Montreal Jewish community that sort of fosters these leaders?

MH:Well, we always feel that there is a unique Jewish community here. It's very cohesive, and there were always activities going on. And I remember talking to friends who lived in -- or family in New York or Toronto -- they didn't have this kind of affinity to the Yiddish schools that we had here. And somehow, I don't know what it was, but it was a very, very -- and it still is, even though 10:00the population is not the same -- it was a very vibrant Jewish community. Why it was, I really can't say, but I think this is one of the only cities in North America that has so many still Orthodox synagogues. Mostly they're Conservative and Reform in the other cities, and very few -- and here it was the opposite. Now there are more Conservative than there were then, I think, and there's only one Reform synagogue, really. But it was a very close-knit and cohesive community, yes. And they always had cultural things going on, and artistic, and it was really wonderful.

CW:Was there any particular event or experience that was really important for you in sort of your own coming of age and Jewish identity from your childhood?

MH:Well, we used to go to Yiddish theater. My parents used to take us, even though I didn't always know the stories or whatever, 'cause the 11:00Monument-National was a thriving Yiddish theater. You probably heard that from other interviews.

CW:But can you describe it a little -- the theater?

MH:Well, they used to bring a lot of these musical comedies. And some of them, I was told; I didn't understand it at the time (laughs) that they were a little bit off-color. But of course, I didn't get it. And then there was a very great actor, Maurice Schwartz, who came here, and we used to make it our business to go and see these plays, you know? And it was really wonderful.

CW:Well, I'd like to just fast-forward for a few years, and can you give me a snapshot of your professional and family life -- of sort of where you worked and what your family situation is?

MH:Now, you mean?

CW:Yeah.

MH:Okay. Now, we're married fifty-five years. After I finished high school, I 12:00didn't go to university, but I was working as a clerk at the Bell Telephone Company. And then I got married and stayed home and had my children. And then I started slowly working for some people, one day a week, two days a week in an office, just helping out. And then when I started -- I think in my mid-forties, I went back to school and I got my library technician certificate. Because before that, I started working in Chomedey, where we lived; they had declassified all their librarians, and they hired laypeople like me. And I found that I really loved it, because I loved to read and everything. So I started going to library school. And then in 1981, I started working here. And I worked for sixteen years here. And I really had a big connection to the Jewish Public 13:00Library, because I remember going there as young as about five years old. My father used to take me, 'cause he attended music appreciation classes. And I remember the librarians there. So we were members of the Jewish Public Library for years and years. And in fact, the director, Paul Trepman, who hired me -- he was a teacher of mine in evening school when he first came over from Europe -- an evening high school. After I finished the folkshule -- day school -- I went for a few years at night. So we always had a very, very close connection to the Jewish Public Library. And so did my parents. They used to go to lectures and all kinds of activities that they sponsored.

CW:So I know that there have been many lectures and great writers that have come through. Is there anything for you personally that stands out --a great writer that you loved meeting or a great performance?

MH:Well, it's hard to think back, you know, when you put yourself on the spot. Well, I've gone to many, many book reviews. And at the Jewish Public Library, we did meet some authors, but right off the bat, I can't think of a name.

CW:Well, I know that you've also been sort of a lifetime attender of Yiddish theater, and I wonder if you could just describe the theater -- the Yiddish Theatre -- which is across the street here, and its evolution in your attendance of it.

MH:Oh, it's wonderful. Before they formed the Yiddish Theatre, they had just what they called the "Society of Graduates from the Jewish People's School." And I was in the play that year, because I also used to attend a lot of -- or used to act in a lot of plays when I was in folkshule. And then Dora Wasserman came 15:00and formed the group. And by that time I (laughs) was already married, and I found it very hard to go to rehearsals and the performances, so I dropped out -- and maybe I shouldn't have. But we always attended the performances. And they were a wonderful troupe. And they just kept getting better and better over the years. But the very, very first year it was called the "Society of the Jewish People's School," and I was in one of the plays. I think it was something about Herzl -- I don't even remember that -- it was just so long ago. But I never became a part of the Yiddish drama group, but never failed to attend their performances. And they were a wonderful, wonderful troupe.

CW:So I'd like to ask a little bit about the Talking Books project. How did you become involved in that project?

MH:Well, I knew it was going on here at the library. And then somebody said that 16:00they were getting short of readers. So I approached them and I said, "You know, I really would like to do that, because I like to read Yiddish and it's sort of almost like acting." So they said, Fine, just make a sample tape. And I did. And they said, Wonderful! And that's when I started doing it. 'Cause some of the readers were getting older, and it was -- you know. So that's how I got involved. I decided to do that, to let my acting abilities come through, you know? Yeah. So it was good. And then I was here, so I would do it either on a lunchtime or whatever, and they would accommodate me. And that's how I got involved in it.

CW:Now I've heard that one thing they kind of liked from your sample tape was your accent.

MH:Yes, they called it an "amerikaner yidish [American Yiddish]." I don't have the "rrr" -- that "reysh" -- because when I try to speak that way, it really sounds contrived. So somebody said, "Oh, they liked the amerikaner yidish" -- I said, "Fine." Somebody even asked me, "Were you born here?" I said, "Yes, born and bred." "And you learned" -- "Yes." I don't know why they're so surprised that we can speak Yiddish because we were born and bred here, that it didn't come from Europe. Yeah. So is that what they said? They liked my accent? (laughs)

CW:Now you're --

MH:That's just the way I speak, you know? Yeah.

CW:(laughs) Yeah. I think that you did a number of these talking books.

MH:A few of them, yeah.

CW:Right? Yeah. And one of them was Sholem stories. Were these stories that you had read before and that you already knew?

MH:Yes, yes. They were stories --- 'cause we learned a lot of Sholem Aleichem in 18:00school, and we had the books at home, and I knew that that would be a good book -- people would like that; it would make a good audience. And then I did some humorous stories, and then I did one on the life of Janusz Korzcak -- I did the whole book. So -- yeah. They really helped -- and it was very nice to have a monitor -- that I didn't have to talk for half an hour straight. And not only that, if I mispronounced a word or didn't know something, they could stop the tape, and then just continue on. So it was really a wonderful experience. I loved doing it. And I was very -- not unhappy, but I was sad that when they moved here, they got rid of their recording studio. I could have gone on doing more even when I retired -- 'cause I retired from the l-- in '97 -- but they just didn't have the capacity to do it. And that was really too bad, 'cause we could have done more.

CW:Do you know sort of the idea behind the project, what started the idea of the project?

MH:No. No, I don't. I don't know who was the mastermind of it. But it was a very good idea, because people started taking these tapes home. And a couple of times, somebody once stopped me on the street because they knew who I was and they (laughs) -- my fifteen minutes of fame, you know? But I really don't remember how and why they started it.

CW:Yeah, and actually, one of the most famous, I think -- or has become the most circulated talking book, the Kasrilevke stories, is in libraries all over the world now. (laughs)

MH:Oh really?

CW:Yeah.

MH:With my voice?

CW:Yeah.

MH:Oh!

CW:(laughs) So you're a real star.

MH:I'm not getting royalties. (laughs)

CW:(laughs) Can you just maybe -- I just want to sort of see if I can picture what this studio looked like. Can you describe what the setup was?

MH:Yeah, well, it was, yeah, two separate rooms. I was sitting at a table with the book and a mic, and then there was a glass in front of me, and on the other side, there was a monitor -- or, no, there was somebody recording me. And there was a monitor following with the book, of course, because sometimes I wouldn't realize; you know, these words sometimes were Russian or Hebrew origin, and sometimes I myself wouldn't realize that I was mispronouncing it. Very good, they would stop it. And that's what it was. Two little rooms. But it was an actual recording studio.

CW:That's great. Do you have -- I mean, I know you mentioned you loved reading. Is there a specific type of literature that you love, or a favorite book or author?

MH:Well, I read a lot of novels. I'm not a big nonfiction writer. But I like 21:00Anita Brookner and I like -- oh, she's a -- from India, Anita Rau Badami is very, very good. And a lot of James Michener books. Yeah.

CW:And do you ever read Yiddish literature anymore?

MH:No. That's really a shame. But you know, they say it's like riding a bicycle. I can still pick up a newspaper, I can still pick up a book and read it quite fluently. But once I stopped working at the library, unfortunately, no, I don't.

CW:Do you ever find occasion to use Yiddish these days?

MH:Yes, especially (laughs) when we go to Israel. Our children live there. And there are a lot of the older people who -- they know Hebrew, but our Hebrew -- but they remember Yiddish even if they were born there or they came from other countries -- so we use them. But now, no, not that much. So we used to use it a lot when we went there. And sometimes in the library there would be people 22:00coming in who didn't really know English -- you know, the Yiddish readership has gone down a lot, as you can imagine. So I used to be able to help them. I was very glad -- I was working in the library a lot with the Yiddish materials, and I was very glad to do that. But right now, I don't really find that I need to use it, or have to use it, which is a shame. I mean, I wouldn't want to see that language die.

CW:Yeah, I'm wondering, sort of -- where do you see the future of Yiddish?

MH:Well, I know that there are new courses coming up in the universities. They're trying to offer a revival of love of Yiddish. And even in Israel, they're starting more courses in Yiddish. So I don't think that it's -- I hope it won't die. It's such a descriptive language that it can't die. And some of the schools are starting to teach it a little more -- like, Bialik High School 23:00is starting to teach more Yiddish, even in the folkshule -- you know, a little more -- not a lot, but a little more. And as I said, universities are offering courses. The library's offering courses in Yiddish. So I hope people will get onto the idea that it is a wonderful language, and not one to disapp-- you know, to let it go.

CW:People talk about really loving Yiddish language. What do you love about Yiddish language?

MH:As I said, it's just very, very descriptive. You know, there are certain words -- I can't think of something right now, but there are certain words when they're talking about it, and you can just picture the idea, you can just picture what they're talking about just by the language, you know? Yeah.

CW:How -- I mean, you grew up having Yiddish in school and having connection 24:00with the Yiddish Theatre, a very sort of immersive Yiddish and Jewish world. When you were raising your own kids, how did -- was there any way to pass that on to them?

MH:Well, we followed all the traditions -- the holidays. I'm really sorry that I did not speak Yiddish to them, because I know that some of my contemporaries did, and their children know Yiddish. So they really don't know. When we were living in the suburbs in Chomedey, there was no Jewish People's School, there was just the United Talmud Torah, which was a more or less religious school. My husband was a -- well, it was hard -- we couldn't afford it, and he was against sending them to school there. If I had to send them to the Jewish People's School, they would have to be bussed into Montreal, and that was a bit of a trek. So I think to myself -- I'm not sure now -- that maybe I would have fought 25:00more if there were a Jewish People's School in Chomedey, where we lived, the same way as there was one in the Talmud Torah. Maybe I would have (laughs) won the battle. But to this day, I'm sorry that I didn't speak to them in Yiddish. In fact, my daughter actually took a Yiddish course at the Y. And it was funny how she came to ask me -- because they were doing declension of nouns the way I did them in Latin in high school, and she would say to me, like, "When do you say 'di, dos, der [grammatical gendered articles]?' 'Cause it's 'di mame [the mother],' and 'a brivele der mamen [a letter to mother].'" I said, "You know, we didn't learn that in school, either. We didn't learn Yiddish grammar. But just by talking, we just knew how to -- what to say." And she was actually learning the declension of nouns when she was taking that course. So I know Columbia's offering courses in Yiddish, and people have been taking them and graduating and liking it, you know. So they probably have enough students taking these 26:00languages to offer the courses.

CW:Well, I'm wond-- are there any stories or reflections that you wanted to say during this interview?

MH:You mean, about Yiddish?

CW:Yeah, or about your experience in the Jewish community here in Montreal?

MH:Well, it was -- as I say, it was a vibrant community. We went to folkshule. We belonged -- my friend and I -- we belonged to Habonim, which was a Zionist group. We enjoyed it very much. In fact, there was reverse snobbery -- we used to look our nose down at some of our friends who used to belong to the Y, because they would have different kind of clubs, and they would wear lipstick, and when we were (laughs) still in the hora clothes, you know? So we had a great time with that. And as I said, going to school and going to the library. We of 27:00course were immersed in the English culture, too, but Yiddish played a big part in our lives when we were growing up. And some of it still remain-- like, we still remember a lot of the things we used to do. As I said, I'm sorry that my children don't have that, but part of it is our fault, because we did not speak Yiddish to them. They went to afternoon school, but they were learning more Hebrew than Yiddish in those years, you know. Yeah.

CW:And the Yiddish Theatre is still going on. Do you have any favorite -- or any meaningful Yiddish songs or music? Do you connect to -- ever listen to Yiddish music? Has that been a part of your life?

MH:Well, it used to be. We liked these songs -- "Oyfn pripetshik [On the hearth]" and we sing a lot of the Yiddish songs -- I can't even think offhand 28:00now. But we -- yeah, we still sing a lot of them. And we listen to, let's say, Theodore Bikel singing all the Yiddish songs, and we know most of them. Yeah. "Oyfn pripetshik" is one of the favorites. Yeah.

CW:Great. Well, I'd like to just close with a question -- a general question. Sort of thinking about what we've been talking about -- Yiddish, and also just Jewishness in general, do you have advice to future generations?

MH:Well, my advice would be -- you mean, to Jewish people? Well, to try not to let that language die -- and to try to find out more about the Yiddish literature and the music, because there's a wealth of studies there. You know. 29:00So I would -- but it would depend how they feel. I think it would depend on their background, as well. Because I don't know how my children are going to imbue their children -- especially my son and daughter-in-law live in Israel, and the three children are (laughs) sabras [Jewish person born and bred in Palestine/Israel]. So of course, they know Hebrew. But I don't know how -- how would they -- they feel about keeping the Jewish language ali-- the Yiddish language alive. Do you know this woman Tamara Kramer, who does "Yiddish and Danish"?

CW:I don't.

MH:Yeah, well she has a website here in Montreal, and she came to our house and also threw out Yiddish expressions to us -- and what they meant and -- you know. And so people are trying to do things and keep them alive, you know?

CW:That's great.

MH:Yeah.

CW:Well, thank you so much for sharing your story with us, and I think that's 30:00the end of my questions. So, thank you.

MH:Yeah, okay --

CW:A sheynem dank [Thank you very much].

MH: A sheynem dank.

[END OF INTERVIEW]