ISABEL BELARSKY ORAL HISTORY

HANKUS NETSKY:It's Friday, April 8th, 2011. We are in Brooklyn -- we're in Brighton Beach, and we're speaking with Isabel Belarsky. And so, I wanted to ask you if you could start by telling us about your father and his background.

ISABEL BELARSKY: (laughs) Well, my father was actually found -- discovered -- by Mormons.

HN:Is that right?

IB:In 1929, there was a committee from America. And one of them was President 1:00Harris of Brigham Young University. And he came with my father's uncle, Benjamin Brown -- whose original name wasn't Benjamin Brown (laughs) -- it also was the same name as we were. And they came to meet us. And President Harris -- to make it short -- invited him to come to America to Brigham Young University to teach singing. Well, this is 1929, you know? (laughs) A Russian Jew. But he went to the government with Harris and he got permission for us -- for my mother and myself -- to join -- that was also a difficult thing -- for six months to come to Provo to Brigham Young to teach. And that's how the whole story of the 2:00Belarskys came -- because of the Mormons and because of Harris being in Russia. And it took about a year before the government gave us permission -- gave my father permission to come here for six months and then to return. Well, of course, after the six months, there was an extension, and then there was another extension. But eventually, we were in Ellis Island. Because there was nobody to take us off -- originally -- to take us off. Because the uncle, who was in Russia, was in California, and there was nobody to meet us. And that's why we went to Ellis Island. And that's why I'm Miss Ellis Island. (laughs) I'm very 3:00(laughs) -- they're always coming for interviews, because there are very few people that actually could talk about Ellis Island.

HN:You were actually at Ellis Island.

IB:We came to Ellis Island with -- the only thing was this samovar. This samovar was the only thing we brought from Russia.

HN:Wow.

IB:And my father carried it. When we left Russia, the uncle gave us ten dollars, American money. And in Poland, we were going through customs -- they took the ten dollars, because -- to crate this samovar. And my father was carrying this samovar, crated -- it's heavy to begin with, but crated was impossible -- all through -- in the boat and coming to Ellis Island with this. And we arrived in 4:00Ellis Island. And there was questioning -- you know, there's a judge and there's a -- If you have a chance to go back, would you? And you say, No, we wouldn't stay there. Had to be very careful that the -- and little by little, we got permission -- (laughter) he wants also to be in this -- and -- (looks down) you want to hear the story? You want to hear the story?

HN:Yes, I'm sure he does.

IB:Sure. And that's the beginning of our -- the miracle story of being in America. And my father went to Utah, because he had the permission. And we waited a little bit, my mother and I. We got a permit to go to Utah, too. And we 5:00lived there for a little while with the Mormons -- where the students and professors -- in Provo, Utah, where Brigham Young is. And there's so many wonderful things through that period. And then, there was nothing for him as a singer to be in Utah, so we went to Los Angeles. And there, he was heard. There was a big affair where Albert Einstein was the guest speaker. And they invited Sidor to sing. And that's how his career in America really started, singing at a big dinner in honor of Einstein. And he was the young Russian singer -- just 6:00here for about two years in that -- and the people heard him. And he was heard by the conductor -- Artur Rodziński was the conductor; it was the Los Angeles Symphony. And he spoke about him, he invited him to the Chicago Opera Company and then the San Francisco Opera Company. Because Sidor came here as an opera singer, not as a folk singer. 'Cause in Russia, he was in the opera -- Conservatory of Music in Leningrad. And things started moving. From the opera, they heard -- there was -- in those years, they used to have big events. The 7:00IOTW had a big event, if you know about the international -- who I worked for about twenty years. (laughs) And many big affairs where the mayor would come, and the president. And a lot of people heard him -- they heard Sidor. And he was accepted in all these different events and the operas. And he sang -- of course, he sang in Hebrew, in Yiddish, and Russian. And he got to be very well-known in that part of the world. And there was nothing in Los Angeles. We were there for about four years, but there was little for him -- you know -- so, we moved to New York. And in New York, he started to sing -- go all over the world singing, 8:00especially Argentina, Brazil. He was in the opera company in Brazil and at the Teatro Colón, the opera house in Argentina. And he got to be very well known in the opera field. But at heart, he was a Russian singer singing Yiddish and Hebrew. And especially in New York, when he sang in so many big affairs -- it's not like now. This is before your time, when they had these big, big dinners where they would invite Mrs. Roosevelt and La Guardia -- or the mayor. And as a guest artist, he always was singing. And that's how he got to be known. And life 9:00was good for him, you know? He was loved. And he had an unusual personality. He loved (laughs) -- he loved people. He loved children and people, and they loved him. And the ladies. (laughter) Many times, you know, we would go to different affairs and concerts, and he was always surrounded by women. And I'd go over -- I said, "Papa, we have to go home." (laughs) "Mama is home waiting."

HN:(laughs) That was your job. (laughs)

IB:I killed the deal. (laughs) I always called him "papa" --

HN:Good for you. (laughs)

IB:-- yeah, "Papa, we have to go home. Mama's home alone." (laughs) You know?

HN:You were with him at everything.

IB:Every place.

HN:Yes, I know. That's the amazing thing.

IB:I went with him every place. And he liked it, because they thought that I was his wife and that -- you know, and that's -- to any man, he loved that. And he and my mother had an unusual life, which many people didn't know. Mama -- when they -- before they were married, they lived in the Ukraine. We all did. I was born in Odessa, too, like Irene. But we didn't live in Odessa; we lived in Leningrad. But this is before I was born -- in a small town near Odessa called Kryzhopol -- it's in the Ukraine.

HN:Kryzh--

IB:Kryzhopol.

HN:Kryzhopol.

IB:It's on the map.

HN:Kryzhopol, yeah. Yeah.

IB:I once found it.

HN:Yeah. Yes.

IB:It's a little shtetl [small Eastern European village with a Jewish community] 11:00where my grandparents lived. And during the summertime, we would go there. My mother also lived nearby. And she was an only child. Her parents were, in those days, quite rich. And she was a very beautiful, young girl. And my father, she knew him as a boyfriend. And Sidor was arrested. In those days, a Jewish boy would be arrested and sent away forever, just for being Jewish. And my mother went to the commissar or whoever it was and she begged him to release him -- not 12:00to send him. And he liked my mother. You know, he said, he would if she would go with him. And my mother, at the age of probably seventeen, eighteen -- she did -- to save my father's life.

HN:Wow.

IB:Which was -- at that time, for an only child -- you know, only girl. And they released him.

HN:Wow.

IB:And that's how -- his father made a chupah (laughs) and married them off. And exactly nine months to the day, in September, I was born.

HN:Hm.

IB:Yeah. And we always said that I look just like Sidor, so it couldn't be another man, (laughs) had to be -- and so that in itself -- in those days -- 13:00this is not like now, you know? A young Jewish girl -- to give herself to a -- a nothing, you know? To save her boyfriend's life. She did that. There were other things in those years -- her parents were -- during one of the pogroms, people used to hide in cellars. When the pogromchiks would go through the little towns, burn the town, burn the people -- especially the Jews with beards, you know? And they -- my grandparents were in a cellar, but the cellar was burned, and they were -- whew, they were burned. And that's how I was named after my mother's 14:00mother, Bela.

HN:She perished in that?

IB:I'm jumping from one thing to another.

HN:That's okay.

IB:Please excuse me if I'm --

HN:I'm happy to -- as long as you have things to say, we're gonna let you talk. (laughs) And then, I'll ask you questions.

IB:This is -- life in Russia in those years -- this is -- I'm going back to 1919.

HN:Yeah. You were born around then?

IB:I was born (laughs) --

HN:No, you were born later.

IB:Not much.

HN:Not much?

IB:(laughs) Nineteen twenty.

HN:You're kidding.

IB:Yes.

HN:Nineteen twenty?

IB:You can count?

HN:That seems impossible, but I won't go into that. (laughs)

IB:Exactly 1920. Here. It's right here. You can't miss it.

HN:(laughs) Well, I think you would know even better than the piece of paper. (laughs)

IB:(laughs) Well, I don't believe it, too.

HN:And then, you have to look it up. (laughs)

IB:I try not to believe it, but it's here.

HN:That's fantastic.

IB:But luckily, I don't feel it and I don't -- I'm part of the -- now -- not --

HN:You're in our generation.

IB:Yes. I'm a generation of everything -- of everybody. (laughs)

HN:(laughs) You're just here.

IB:Whatever age you want it, I'm part of that. (laughs)

HN:Fantastic.

IB:Because I'm very much like Sidor -- like my father. He was the same type. He loved people and he loved young people and children and ladies. And when I tell the story -- which I'm sure many daughters wouldn't tell, but when my mother -- it's an interesting feeling about a woman who is so much in love with her 16:00husband. It's such a rare thing, but she was very unusual. When I was about five or six years old, she had a child; she had a boy, David. I was present, because I couldn't -- I had a cold or something. And I heard her screams. And I said to myself at that time, If this means having a child, I said, I'll never have -- and that's why psychologically, I never did. I didn't -- 'cause I always heard her screams.

HN:Wow.

IB:There was another point to it. (laughs) She -- at that time -- a boy was 17:00born. She had a ten-and-a-half-pound boy. But it was in Kryzhopol, and there was no doctors, you know? They brought in a man -- so-called doctor -- and he just ripped her apart. He took out the baby -- a ten-and-a-half-pound boy -- dead. But he ripped her apart. And she could never have any --

HN:More children, yeah.

IB:-- intimacy --

HN:Yeah -- or anything. Yeah.

IB:-- you know, with my father. And she was the type of a woman that she came to my -- she said to my father, "As long as we're together, you're young and vigorous; you should live and have a life with somebody."

HN:Wow.

IB:And she made sure that -- they were together for fifty-eight, fifty-nine years -- but always, she made sure that he had somebody. To such an extent that this young girl who I knew very well -- we were friends, she was younger than I was -- (clears throat) used to be -- excuse me -- always in our house. And when my father died, she stopped coming to us. And my mother used to complain to me, "Why Peppi stopped coming to see me? Did I say anything? Did I do anything? 19:00Why?" I said, "Mama, why is she gonna --" But to my mother, anybody that made my father happy -- that's all she wanted. And because Peppi for about twenty-five years was part of our household -- I mean, she didn't live with us, but --

HN:She was there. Yeah.

IB:And when she stopped coming after -- and my mother used to be so upset. "Why doesn't Peppi come to see me?" Right here -- I mean, when she was living in Brighton already. And I said -- I used to say to my mother, "What's she gonna -- what?" She said, "But did I say something to her? Did I -- why did she stop 20:00coming to see me?" Because in her mind, anybody that made my father happy in any way -- that's all that she wanted. Because in the years when she couldn't have any --

HN:Intimacy, you mean?

IB:-- life with him, so she made sure that he always would have somebody to live. And my father ado-- I don't know what the right word is, but they lived so happily together. He had such a respect for her. In a way, I used to say to myself, they -- it was living like mother and son. You know? Each one wanted to make the other one happy. It was unusual. It was an unusual situation -- that 21:00this woman who all her life was only concerned that my father would be happy -- and she never went with him to places. She never wanted to go with him -- he should go as an artist, not with a wife, you know? So, she always said -- I would go with her, but -- with him. And she never, never went with him. But the house -- we had the most unusual house -- apartment. We lived in Washington Heights for about forty years, if you know New York.

HN:Sure.

IB:It would be full of people coming. And it didn't matter when -- the table was full and people could come at any time in my -- and for lunch, for breakfast -- 22:00because, you know, they were later-gators, you know? They didn't have -- a lot of people didn't have jobs that they had to go from nine to five or whatever. So, the door was always open. And at eleven o'clock at night, when people would get out from a movie or a theater, they'd say, Where should we go? To the Belarskys'! So, at eleven o'clock, the door would open, and the table was always, always -- we had a big dining room table -- filled with food. And people came and played cards or sang or -- all kinds of people. It was a wonderful home to be brought up. After I got married, I didn't want to leave my -- (laughs) so, I lived with a husband -- about three years, I didn't want to move out --

HN:(laughs) You stayed in Washington Heights.

IB:(laughs) I didn't want to go. It was wonderful to live there. And when I finally did move out, I was lonely. (laughs) I wanted to -- all that was going.

HN:You know, I'd love to know -- your father was born, I think, in the 1880s, I mean --

IB:Eighteen ninety-eight.

HN:Oh, 1898. And you were born in -- yeah, 1920. That makes sense. But in the 1890s. So, it was still tsarist Russia.

IB:Yeah.

HN:But his repertoire is everything, you know? He sings cantorials, he sings the songs of workers, he sings drinking songs, he sings every possible kind of Yiddish song.

IB:Yeah.

HN:And can you tell us a little about his background? Did he have a religious background?

IB:Well, because he went to kheyder [traditional religious school].

HN:He went to kheyder.

IB:In Kryzhopol. He lived -- well, he went to kheyder -- you know what a kheyder 24:00is. And to a certain extent, when he was thirteen, fourteen, he would go to -- and do the services. He knew everything about services. He did the Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur -- and, of course, Passover. And he sang -- every year, he would go to South America for the holiday -- never in New York -- as a cantor. Never in New York. He didn't want to be --

HN:He wanted to keep that secret in New York, right? (laughs) That could ruin --

IB:Yeah, he didn't want to be the cantor Belarsky -- I mean, as much -- but he 25:00knew everything in that field. Like Jan Peerce and Richard Tucker -- they all did the same thing. But he knew all the -- he had all the holidays. And he -- here in -- never in New York, but he had sometimes for Passover -- in Atlantic City, he would bring a chorus along with him. Not a Jewish person in the chorus, you know, (laughs) but --

HN:(UNCLEAR) chorus. (laughs) Yeah.

IB:And Atlantic City, in Philadelphia -- for the holidays. Under different names.

HN:Hm. Under different names?

IB:Never as Belarsky.

HN:Really? What other names?

IB:Well, he didn't want to be associated as a cantor cantor.

HN:I see.

IB:The only time he was cantor -- I think in Atlantic City. But otherwise he would go under the name -- original name of -- our name was Lifshitz. So, he would go under Lifshitz. Then he would go -- different names, but never Belarsky. (laughs) But once, somebody saw his picture, and they recognized -- that's not Lifshitz, (laughs) that's -- it was a relative. So, they found him, I think, some place in South America. And he just didn't want to be -- as a -- 27:00like Richard Tucker, he didn't change his name, but he wasn't, like, a cantor cantor, (laughs) you know? Or Jan Peerce. They kept it two different -- Richard Tucker and Jan Peerce were enemies anyway, you know, because -- they were in-laws. Tucker's wife was a sister to Jan Peerce, I think, (UNCLEAR). But they didn't talk to each other. Oh, that's another story.

HN:But these people were always in your house, I'm sure, because they were all friends with your father.

IB:Yeah, well, they were in the house.

HN:Yeah.

IB:Not too many. My father didn't associate too much with the --

HN:Not with the other singers?

IB:Well, they were friends, but not -- well, he had friends for years, but 28:00nothing -- not in the music world. But here in the -- he was always studying. That's one thing about Sidor -- he always studied. Always had somebody coming into the house and coach -- and of course, he sang with Toscanini. Well, what could be better, you know --

HN:What did he sing with Toscanini?

IB:"Fidelio."

HN:A-ha!

IB:"Fidelio." Rocco in "Fidelio." And that was such a wonderful thing -- that Toscanini was told about him, and he had an audition with Toscanini. And in those years -- this was also before -- NBC had a program every Sunday at, you know, Radio City -- not in Radio City, but --

HN:A broadcast.

IB:-- at Rockefeller.

HN:Yeah.

IB:And once they -- Toscanini -- they did "Fidelio." And there was a man, [Chudinov?], who was like a publicity man, and he recommended Sidor to Toscanini, and he chose him to sing. And that was -- to Sidor, that was his greatest feeling -- Toscanini. And he liked him -- you know, Toscanini liked him. He lived in Riverdale at that time. He used to rehearse with him. And they did "Fidelio" in concert form, not with the costumes. Two Sundays. I have the album -- Toscanini album. They also made a cassette of "Fidelio." Wonderful 30:00opera. Wonderful, wonderful.

HN:(UNCLEAR)

IB:And his part is just beautiful. And let's see (sighs) -- (laughs) it's a long life. It's -- so many things. (laughs)

HN:Oh, yeah. So many things. Could I just ask you about -- I mean, he made so many recordings, you know?

IB:Yeah.

HN:And he started to record already -- it seemed right -- maybe in the, I guess, 1930s more -- or especially in the 1940s --

IB:I have something --

HN:-- and he must have -- did he -- so how did he do that? Did he have an accompanist? Did he write the music himself -- the arrangements? Or --

IB:He arranged a lot himself. And then, he had -- the accompanist was Vasilyevsky. Vasilyevsky came to America with Shalyapin. And he remained here.

HN:And he always recorded with -- right? He -- throughout his career, it was always Vasilyevsky.

IB:Always. Always. I had to -- I was his secretary (laughs) of the company there. I t-- their artistic --

HN:You mean, you worked for Vasilyevsky?

IB:No, just --

HN:When you say --

IB:It was his own company, so they had to have a -- (laughs) a secretary or whatever. And he made many, many -- I sent a copy of all his (UNCLEAR) to --

HN:To Florida Atlantic.

IB:Yes.

HN:They have them on the website. Now --

IB:Yeah.

HN:-- in the world can hear your father sing anytime, because they have an --

IB:Isn't that great?

HN:It's fantastic.

IB:Isn't that wonder--

HN:I want to thank you for doing that, 'cause it is just so --

IB:Well, and they're wonderful people in --

HN:They are very nice.

IB:-- Florida. Oh, he's such a nice --

HN:And they put every single one of them on the website. And anytime someone 32:00wants to hear any -- I think there's probably thirty albums on there, at least.

IB:Yeah. Yes. It's remarkable.

HN:And everything from cantorials to holiday songs to Yiddish songs, Russian songs -- everything. Everything.

IB:He did everything. I mean, this man did everything. He loved to sing. (laughs) He really loved to sing.

HN:Yes.

IB:It didn't matter if there were a couple of people -- he loved to sing, and he loved people, and he loved children, and he loved -- 'cause Sidor always said (laughs) -- he would love him. (laughs) He was a natural. You see the picture of him? Always smiling.

HN:Yes.

IB:Like those pictures. (laughs) He was so much fun. And he loved to drink. Not as -- and when he drank, he was so jolly. And he would go out into the foyer and ring everybody's bell, you know? (laughs)

HN:Oh, really? (laughs)

IB:(laughs) You know, (UNCLEAR). And of course, he thought he was the best driver in the car, so one day -- he was the worst. One day -- they lived for the summertime in Sea Gate -- you know -- coming here, 'cause there were, I think, twenty tickets (laughs) -- coming from here.

HN:Oh no! (laughs)

IB:Yeah. And he always would say he was the best driver. So, for a month he couldn't drive, because they took off his (laughs) license. When he would park -- so of course, all the other cars he would attach himself to -- all the -- when he had to leave, he went with all twenty cars with him, because he would (laughs) -- I had a girlfriend, and she said, "Never. I'm never gonna go with 34:00Sidor any place."

HN:Oh no.

IB:'Cause we were once on the road -- on Taconic (clears throat) -- and -- two o'clock in the morning we went. He was singing in Grossinger's. And when we left, he had to make a -- go to -- U-turn going back to New York. But he missed that, so I tell you, he crossed that whole thing -- you know, where you couldn't -- if he -- (laughs) he would have been in jail if he would be picked up. But he thought he was the best driver. And (laughs) he was a funny man. He was -- lots 35:00of funny, funny, sweet man.

HN:What was your favorite things that you heard him sing? When you listen to your father, what do you like to hear him do?

IB:I was just listening to his Russian record, which I love to -- when you were coming --

HN:Russian songs -- Russian Jewish songs -- but no, Russian songs, really --

IB:Russian songs.

HN:Like the Vertinsky or like -- I remember he sang some of that and --

IB:"Temnaya noch [Russian: Dark night]," you know -- that --

HN:"Temnaya noch," for example.

IB:All that.

HN:Yes. I heard it when I was coming in.

IB:Yeah.

HN:(laughs) Yes.

IB:I love those songs. They had so many albums. There are about twenty different albums -- different -- Yiddish and Hebrew and cantorial and -- he loved to sing. 36:00He loved -- and I'm forever -- I said to myself when he died that whatever I do, I have to keep his life -- his songs -- alive, as long as I can. 'Cause he really was a good singer and a good -- very unusual, very unusual person.

HN:Well, you know, they continued to play his music for many, many years, of course, on WEVD. But after WEVD was no longer, then where could you hear him? But of course he -- recently, you know, when his music was used in a very famous movie -- and how did that come about, do you know? That the --

IB:How did that come about? The Coen brothers -- oh, yes. There was a man who -- 37:00who was the Coen brothers' agent or -- he got in touch with me and he said that they want to do that one song, "Der milners trern [The miller's tears]." And that's how it all started.

HN:Uh-huh.

IB:It seemed that they came -- the Coen brothers -- came from a background in -- where they had Sidor's records.

HN:Yes. (laughs)

IB:And that's how they knew. And of all the songs, they picked up "Der milners trern," which is a wonderful song. And they really made it nice.

HN:Mm, look at that!

IB:And they put it here. Here. "Thank you so much for your father's music. It meant so much to us. The Coen brothers."

HN:Look at that. Ethan and Joel Coen. Very nice. Yeah. Yeah, their family is from a Yiddish background.

IB:Yes.

HN:And they're from Lexington, Massachusetts, actually --

IB:Yeah.

HN:-- which is interesting.

IB:So, they must have had his -- the original albums of "Der milners trern."

HN:Yeah. Yes. Yes.

IB:So -- otherwise, they --

HN:Yes, yes, yes. So, they got in touch --

IB:But that was very nice of them (clears throat) --

HN:Wow.

IB:-- to send this to me. Joel and Ethan Coen.

HN:Were there other events you remember from your father's career that were just so exciting and people you met and -- you know, that you really -- that stand out for you?

IB:Yes. Of course, through the years -- I can -- (clears throat) a lot of people 39:00-- 'cause of the Utah -- that was very unusual.

HN:Yeah. Right.

IB:I mean, of all the things, they were the ones that really (clears throat) brought us to America. Of all things --

HN:Right.

IB:-- the Mormons. (laughs) The Mormons!

HN:And to teach voice at the university?

IB:Yeah.

HN:Is that what he -- uh-huh.

IB:He was there for a few years. Just in the summertime. And (clears throat) then my mother and I went there. But then, he taught at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City for a few summers, too. And he had very nice -- just recently, I got a call from a woman who said, "My father was in your father's class in 40:00Provo, Utah."

HN:Wow.

IB:I went there after my father died and spoke to the current music students in Provo. And that was the most wonderful experience of my life. They brought in the current students -- and some of them who were still alive -- you know, he had their students. And they came. And I told them the story of how we were there and he was there and how we lived there, too. And they made a tape -- I have a tape of the interview with them. And then, many years later, they called me -- they had a group of Mormons in Governors Island, here. And they -- well, 41:00they heard about me through -- so, they invited me to come speak to them. And they picked me up and we went to Governors Island. And that was also -- all Mormons. And I brought a -- one of Sidor's records, the Russia one -- and played it. And they had a priest and they had all kinds -- and then after, they invited everybody to one of the -- where they stayed. And of course, they don't drink, they don't smoke. Prune juice, we had.

HN:Oh no! So, your father was (laughs) -- I'll bet his driving was good, for once.

IB:(laughs) Yeah. My father gave them a new drink -- hot water with milk. (laughs) You know, they thought (laughs) -- oh, there are so many little stories.

HN:How did he become -- from the Jewish background in Russia -- and you said that you could be in trouble for just being Jewish and he was picked up -- just, you know, almost put away for life -- and yet he became an opera singer. Did he go to conservatory? Or how did he --

IB:Oh yeah, he went to --

HN:How did he end up in music school, then, from that background -- being from a small shtetl?

IB:Well, first, he was in the Odessa -- Odessa had that big opera --

HN:Yes.

IB:-- company. And he was there.

HN:Ah. So he auditioned -- and many of them were Jewish, yes?

IB:And from there, they heard him. And he was -- went to Leningrad to the conservatory of -- in Leningrad. And he was picked to sing all the roles, 43:00everything, in Russian. And because we lived in Leningrad, too, so -- he sang -- I was small, I heard all these operas with him -- I don't know if you know, there was a Russian opera, "Rusalka" --

HN:No.

IB:-- where he's a madman. He lives in the trees. And it's a wonderful -- music -- a wonderful opera. But I don't think the Met ever had it here. And here, he sang with the Chicago -- they had a City Center Opera Company. He was with them.

HN:Ah. And in every language, also -- I assume he knew -- from Leningrad, he had to sing in every --

IB:Yeah. He sang in German. They did -- oh, good God, I -- of course, they did 44:00"La Traviata" -- well, there's this -- it's a nice role for basso. You know, most of the operas don't have much for --

HN:For bass singers.

IB:-- for bass singers. It's a tenor role. But, of course, he did "Boris Godunov" here -- in New York.

HN:Was he -- people wrote for him, also, right? Were there composers here who wrote music specifically --

IB:Yes. He had --

HN:Lazar Weiner, I think, wrote a cantata for him --

IB:Look at that picture there -- excuse me -- where he's at the piano?

HN:Uh-huh.

IB:No, to the right. Keep on going.

HN:Keep on going?

CHRISTA WHITNEY: (UNCLEAR) this one.

IB:Yeah.

HN:Both of them. (laughs)

IB:Either one.

HN:Oh my God, look at that!

IB:Oh, this is with my -- I'm talking about this one.

HN:Oh my! Look at that!

IB:It's "Boris Godunov."

HN:And that's "Boris Godunov."

IB:I mean, this -- that's "Boris Godunov."

HN:There he is as Boris Godunov. Ah. Look.

IB:They did that here, in New York.

HN:Wow.

IB:On Fifty-Seventh Street -- Fifty-Fifth Street.

HN:City Center -- that's City Cent-- Carnegie Hall? No, Fifty-Seventh Street is Carnegie Hall.

IB:Yeah, Fifty-- and Carnegie Hall, he had about sixty concerts in Carnegie Hall.

HN:Yes, yes.

IB:Carnegie Hall.

HN:Did he have -- you mentioned -- you know, we talked about Jan Peerce and Richard Tucker, but were there performers who he was friends with who he liked? For example, in the Yiddish theater or any of those performers who he was interested in?

IB:He never --

HN:Because he was a more -- he had a more formal background than them.

IB:Yeah.

HN:I wonder if he ever was in that world with the Yiddish singers.

IB:No.

HN:Not really --

IB:I mean, he knew them all, but --

HN:I'm thinking of, like, Menasha Oppenheim or --

IB:No. He was a good friend to us -- me, too -- Oppenheim and -- they were a 46:00whole group of very nice Jewish singers, but --

HN:There was no one on his level, was I guess the --

IB:No, not really. Aaron Lebedeff -- you know, that was a different era.

HN:It was a different world.

IB:It was a different world. He was a very interesting guy, always with a little flower in his --

HN:What do you -- yeah, tell us about that world -- I mean, that you -- you know, you grew up around these people, right? So --

IB:They liked me because I was young and cute. (laughs) And there was a place -- in my time -- Café Royal.

HN:Yes. So --

IB:Café Royal was -- that was my second home. I used to go there a few times a week. And they were on Second Avenue and Tenth Street. Later on, there was a 47:00movie -- "Café Royal" -- I think they made a movie out of it. They had all these artists coming there. Jewish artists and even -- Paul Muni, you know, and even John Barrymore. Because it was so well-known -- now -- Moishe Oysher -- you know, that was the period. I really was young -- the kind of age they all liked. (laughs)

HN:(laughs)

IB:You know, I was seventeen when --

HN:I see. (laughs)

IB:Well, I can be bad, at seventeen, eighteen, you know? (laughs) So, I used to love to go there, because they made such a fuss over me. (laughs) I would go 48:00from one table to another. And with -- oh, Menasha Skulnik -- he was my boyfriend. (laughs) There was a Menasha Skulnik -- he was a comedian. And -- but I was always with this crowd. (laughs) That was my crowd. I used to go there almost every other day. From high school, I'd go straight to Café Royal. 'Cause there --

HN:They'd be there all day, right? The matinee would let out, and they'd be in the Café Royal. (laughs)

IB:Café Royal. That was so well known. They made a movie of that. And all these Jewish artists would be -- in those days, the Jewish artists were something. Molly Picon. We were friends with Molly Picon when we lived in Los Angeles. She used to come to visit us. She had a wonderful accompanist, Abe Ellstein. And Abe 49:00-- I was his -- I think he was my first boyfriend. (laughs)

HN:Oh!

IB:(laughs) Abe Ellstein. Then he did me dirty and got married. (laughs) He got married. (laughs) And he used to accompany Molly Picon -- that was her accompanist. He was a very sweet man. And men like -- Aaron Lebedeff was such a talented -- always with a little flower in his lapel. He lived on Twelfth Street and Second Avenue -- that's where they all lived. There was a nice building there. Moishe Oysher lived there. Moishe Oysher lived there with his wife, who 50:00was Florence --

HN:Weiss.

IB:Weiss, yeah. (laughs) He used to call her -- it's a horrible word -- "My kurve [My whore]."

HN:Oh my God.

IB:(laughs) That was his wife. He divorced her. She was my friend, Florence. And he married a young American girl, and they had a child. And I knew the daughter -- he had a lovely daughter. And he was a very nice -- he resembled my father very much, Moishe Oysher. And he appeared very much in South America. He was 51:00very well -- and one year, he came back -- he brought me -- he, Moishe Oysher, brought me -- in South America, they have the leather -- the Brazil-- you know, the leather jacket, leather coats -- so he brought me a leather jacket. Moishe Oysher. (laughs) But his wife was Florence. And he (laughs) used to call her "my kurve." But then he divorced her and he married a young American woman -- girl -- and they had a child. And when the child grew up, I went to her wedding.

HN:Oh, great.

IB:(laughs) I mean, I'm bringing you back such -- it seems like another era, you 52:00know? I'm sitting here -- of course, you know my age. (laughs)

HN:Well, yeah. So -- I mean, I -- when you talk about the Café Royal, it seems like you're there.

IB:Yeah.

HN:And that's very exciting (laughs) for us to hear.

IB:Well, you -- no, you saw my age. I don't hide --

HN:And (UNCLEAR) --

IB:-- I was born in 1920 -- don't tell anyone.

HN:You know, like, Pesach Burstein and Lillian and --

IB:Oh, yeah, the Bursteins.

HN:Yeah. And Seymour and --

IB:Seymour Rexite.

HN:Yeah.

IB:He was a very nice guy. And he had a nice voice. He had a sweet, nice voice, Seymour Rexite. And his wife -- we always used to meet here in New York at the Café Royal -- no, not the Café Royal -- that's after the café -- here, where the Yiddish actors and friends met.

HN:Garden Cafeteria, perhaps?

IB:No, not the Garden --

HN:No? A different one.

IB:It was -- very (laughs) --

HN:That's different. That's for the writers. (laughs)

IB:Yeah. No, it was very different.

HN:That's right. I'm sorry.

IB:No, here on Seventh Street and Second Avenue -- between Second and Third Avenue.

HN:Rumanishe? No. Not Sammy's?

IB:Not near the restaurant.

HN:Not Sammy's. But you're saying another café.

IB:Not a café. The friends of Yiddish --

HN:Oh! The friends of -- right, the --

IB:Yidishe --

HN:The Yiddish actors' guild --

IB:Actors' --

HN:-- the Hebrew actors' guild --

IB:Yeah.

HN:-- the clubhouse there.

IB:That was another home for me (laughs) -- going there.

HN:Yeah. Right, they finally gave that up about -- only about three years ago, I think.

IB:Yeah. I was going there to the very end, until I couldn't at this -- (laughs) you know, I have to use a chair and I couldn't make it. But I was always going 54:00to the café -- to Yiddish actors -- friends of the Yiddish actors.

HN:That's what it is. Yeah. Yes. Yes.

IB:And everybody was there. Everybody was just -- celebrating. We even celebrated David's birthday there. David was my -- I can't say husband -- well, we were together for about thirty years here. So, when he was -- when David was also about seventy or seventy-five, we celebrated over at the café -- in the Yiddish actors' club. (laughs) It's interesting to go back -- it's, I mean, it's quite a long time since I -- I haven't --

HN:And it's so amazing for me, anyway -- I don't know about my accomplices -- 55:00but to hear, like, someone who went out with Abe Ellstein -- to me, that is (laughs) -- that is, like, amazing to me. And, you know, I mean, when I think of people like Ellstein and Secunda and Rumshinsky and --

IB:Oh, Secunda was a very nice --

HN:-- how interesting these people were --

IB:Secunda was right here, in this apartment.

HN:What? Oh, he visited you here?IB:Yeah. Sholom Secunda. And who was here at that time? Some young fellow -- he said, (whispers) "That's Sholom Secunda," you know? (laughs) He was a very nice man. He lived up in -- around Riverdale, but not as far as Riverdale -- about 180th Street. And he was a very, very nice -- he was a conductor at Grossinger's. He was a very nice man. He used to -- we 56:00used to -- my father had a car (laughs) and I told you, my girlfriend said, (laughs) "I'll never go with you in the car," you know? But we used to take Secunda -- and once he came here. I had a different apartment, but in this building. So, somebody said, "Secunda was in your apartment?" (laughs) Yes, he was here.

CW:Can you describe what Café Royal looked like?

IB:What?

CW:Can you describe what Café Royal looked like?

IB:There were just some tables -- I think, let's say, about forty people. That's all -- but it was always crowded. And at night, of course -- oh, in the back, 57:00they were playing cards. (laughs)

HN:That's right. That's right.

IB:Did you ever hear about that?

HN:Yes, yes. Yes.

IB:So, you see, I know the history. (laughs) They used to play -- the men used to play cards in the back. And --

HN:Poker, pinochle, and what was the other one they would play?

IB:Gin rummy.

HN:Right -- gin. That's right. Yes. (laughs)

IB:My father played pinochle. My father loved to play pinochle. That relaxed him. But he would go on a trip -- my father -- my mother, I told you what she felt about Sidor, and she would -- he was coming home after not being home maybe 58:00a month, two months -- my mother would prepare (laughs) some of his cronies in the lobby waiting for him to hear his stories and to have a game of pinochle. That was my mother.

HN:Wow. She sounds so supportive and wonderful, my God. (laughs)

IB:Anything for papa. Anything for Si-- I could never, never say -- if I ever said, "Oh, papa" -- never, never should I say anything about papa -- or mama -- for papa, for mama. We used to go to the movies together. This was very unusual -- that both my mother and father -- we would go to -- and if it was a sad movie, (laughs) I think my father cried more than I did. I looked up and he was crying. (laughs) And I once said to my mother something -- "Shhh!" Well, did I 59:00get it from him -- that I should never -- I said -- I might have said, "Be quiet" or something. Oh, he -- "Never, never tell your mama to be quiet." A very unusual couple. Unusual that there is a woman -- I'm going back to the beginning -- that made sure that he always had --

HN:Yeah.

IB:-- female --

HN:Companions and --

IB:And yet the respect that my father had for my mother was tremendous. "Clarunya" -- he would travel -- he would call her every day from wherever he was. And with so much respect and so much -- in his way, love. And for me, too. 60:00I have letters from him that really -- I've wanted to publish them -- from him. After I got divorced -- once (laughs) -- twice (laughs) --

HN:Uh-huh (laughs) --

IB:So, wherever he would go, he would send me letters. And I have these letters. And letters from him to a daughter who's divorced which are most unusual. He wrote very well in English -- and expressed himself. Tremendous, tremendous -- he wrote. I had a wonderful, wonderful -- not just parents, but they were such 61:00unusual -- two people. Unusual -- to each other. And they were together for, I'd say, about fifty-six years -- maybe more. And they were married in 1919, I guess -- 'cause I was born in 1920, exactly a year (clears throat) -- so, you see, I'm past forty-five. (laughs)

HN:So, you know, I wondered if it would be possible to -- since you have this camera -- to take a little tour of this (laughs) --

IB:Please do. Please do.

HN:-- of this place. I mean, because there are some things that I'm -- I mean, just are so unusual. Does that make sense? And I also want to -- like, you know, what --

IB:Will you promise to come again?

HN:Oh, I will absolutely come again! I mean, I am so delighted to finally get to spend a little time -- you know, besides being around hundreds of people at KlezKamp, to actually get to talk with you and hear these stories.

IB:Did you meet him at KlezKamp?

F1:No, I never went to KlezKamp.

IB:Irene went to KlezKamp.

HN:Well, you already were there even in nineteen-- maybe '86, '87 --

IB:A long time ago.

HN:-- a long time ago.

IB:Very long.

HN:That is very long. That's when I was there. (laughs) So --

IB:Irene was there just --

F1:Like, two years ago --

HN:Yeah. No, I have not been there recently.

F1:I don't remember you --

HN:No. Not since 2001. So -- I haven't been since 2001. But when Isabel was there, which was in the 1980s when it started, I was there. That's when -- and I was there with Ben Gailing, who you might remember --

IB:Oh, yeah.

HN:-- who I took care of till he was a hundred years old. And we did a radio show together every week. So, he's someone from your childhood --

IB:Yeah.

HN:-- that you remember, too. And he always -- we always played your father's 63:00recordings every week on our radio show.

IB:(laughs) Yeah.

HN:Which you had given to Ben, actually --

IB:Yes.

HN:-- or your father had given to Ben Gailing. 'Cause he was one of those Café Royal people also -- back in the long time ago --

IB:Oh, they had the most unusual people at Café Royal. It's just something -- they had an old man, I forget his name -- who owned the newspaper -- oh my God -- a newspaper route --

HN:Uh-huh. He published a -- was it Louis Gilrod, I wonder?

IB:No.

HN:No? Okay.

IB:He was an old man by this time, but he had trucks with -- that would have newspapers to different -- so -- very unusual man. I have it someplace, his picture.

HN:Oh, really? You have photos of the --

IB:Yeah. Someplace.

HN:-- these people?

IB:But --

HN:Wow.

IB:-- I very seldom -- you know, met somebody that really cares (laughs) about that period.

HN:Oh, wow, we really do. (laughs)

IB:It's -- I'd have to look through this --

HN:Was your father in any movies? I was curious -- did he make any Yiddish movies or --

IB:No.

HN:He didn't do that, right?

IB:Uh-uh.

HN:Moishe Oysher's in, you know, eight or nine movies --

IB:Yes. Yeah.

HN:-- and you can see him all the time, you know, but your father didn't really -- he was a concert artist.

IB:He was a concert singer.

HN:He was a concert -- and not -- it wasn't about acting --

IB:No.

HN:-- it was really singing. Yeah. So, it's a different career.

IB:He was not -- he had all those people as friends, but never intimate.

HN:Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Right. Right.

IB:No.

HN:He was in his own --

IB:He kept to himself.

[BREAK IN RECORDING]

HN:That's all there with you.

IB:Thank you for letting me talk about that. Because there's nobody I know that is interested or knows of that era.

HN:Oh, well, it's --

IB:I mean, they --

HN:It's very special. And, you know, as soon as you started talking about it, it just was -- we were there. (laughs) I just want to tell you, you really kind of brought us with you. (laughs)

IB:Well, it's a wonderful era for me to -- wonderful. There was a young man -- it was a poet -- by the name -- his name I don't know, but he has a book of poetry. And he used to always come to the Café Royal. My memory's good, but sometimes these people, they flash. Did you know a fellow -- Pesach Fiszman.HN:Of course! He was my teacher.

IB:Oh, he was your teacher?

HN:Yes.

IB:Oh, I loved him. I loved that man.

HN:(laughs)

IB:He used to like herring and potatoes.

HN:He would come to the -- he lived in the neighborhood, so --

IB:Yeah.

HN:On the Lower East Side.

IB:Oh, he was the sweetest -- the most wonderful human being --

HN:The sweetest -- that says it all. He was the sweetest person in the world. (laughs)

IB:He was so --

HN:Pesach Fiszman.

IB:-- such a wonderful guy.

HN:You even remember Pesach Fiszman.

F1:Oh yeah.

HN:That's the amazing thing.

F1:Yeah. (laughs)

HN:He would be one of your early Yiddish teachers, I'm sure, right?

F1:Yeah -- well, no, but --

HN:But you remember him from --

F1:-- at KlezKamp, yeah.

HN:-- Klez.

F1:Oh yeah.

HN:Because Pesach, he must have pinched your cheeks fifteen times a day. (laughs)

F1:Oh yeah. (laughs)

IB:He always used to say, "Meydele [Young woman]!" He called everybody "meydele." He said --

HN:My daughter, Leah, was "Leyeshke, leyeshke [Little Leah, little Leah]." (laughs) He would sit at the table with us -- sit at the lodge and (laughs) --

IB:You wouldn't have met Pesach. He was --

HN:Pesach -- Pesach Fiszman. Yeah. From Argentina.

F1:Yeah, it was KlezKamp.

HN:He had a wonderful way of speaking with a thick Spanish accent. He spoke 67:00Yiddish with a very thick Spanish -- Argentinian accent.

IB:He was the most lovable man. And I have a friend -- a very dear friend -- she studied Yiddish with him. You know, he taught Yiddish at -- please, help yourself -- pick at --

HN:(UNCLEAR) eat these things. (laughs)

IB:Please. Please do. Sit down and have -- and these candies -- the name is Belochka, my name.

HN:Mm.

IB:That's my real name --

HN:Belochka.

IB:Belochka. But oh, I'm so glad you -- we spoke about Pesach.

F1:Yeah.

IB:He was -- some of these people, you can't duplicate these people. Never. Never, never. They're most unusual. He used to love to come -- and "meydele" 68:00(laughs) -- he called everybody "meydele." (laughs)

HN:(laughs) He was younger than you, but he called you "meydl" (laughs) --

IB:That was his way. And I have a girlfriend, Marilyn -- she studied Yiddish with him. And oh, how she adores him.

HN:Yeah. Yeah.

IB:How she adored this man. He was just -- these people are so different. You just don't meet these people. You don't -- they're -- you know, they can't be duplicated. Please feel like you --

HN:You should have also -- oh, thank you.

IB:Doma [Russian: At home].

HN:(laughs)

IB:You know the word "doma"?

HN:Yes. (laughs) Yes.

IB:Feel doma.

HN:(laughs) Yes.

IB:"Doma" means "at home."

HN:Can you just say one more time -- are you still taping?

CW:Um-hm.

HN:Can you still explain -- the name "Belarsky" -- how you go this name? 'Cause 69:00I never heard that story before. That's so interesting, that the family name was Lifshitz --

IB:Yes.

HN:-- and then it became Belarsky -- how did that happen? And when did it happen?

IB:My grandmother's name -- I was named after my grandmother, Bela. This is my mother's mother -- who was hiding in the cellar -- and they were all burned. And so, when I was born, my mother called me -- my grandmother's name was Bela, so it became Bela. And that's how "Belarsky" came in: Belar -- the "r" was -- my mother was Clara -- and "sky" -- every Russian has a "sky."

HN:Oh, Bela-r-sky -- so the whole family became Belarsky?

IB:Yeah.

HN:That name -- in honor of your grandmother. That's a wonderful story.

IB:But the original -- the name of my grandfather and -- my father had six sisters. He was an only son, with his six sisters. And only one came to America, but after my father died, so he -- they all -- a lot of them remained Lifshitz.

HN:I see.

IB:Even when they were married, they keep on -- the name Lifshitz. And in the -- oh, did you see this book that's called --

HN:Oh -- no! I didn't see that. What is this?

IB:Oh, goodness -- that's why I kept it here. Peter Coan -- C-o-a-n -- Peter -- he's an author. And now, he just wrote this book, "Toward a Better Life," about 71:00different immigrants that come in here. And here is a picture of myself with my cousin Stella.

HN:Look at that! Wow.

IB:This is just coming out. He has other books, but it's just coming out now in a hardcover book. And the next page -- that's my cousin Stella, who lives in California.

HN:Oh, yes. But this is you with your father --

IB:Yes.

HN:It says "Isabel Belarsky with her father, Sidor."

IB:Yeah.

HN:And this is you talking. So they -- he interviewed you in this book? Is this you talking with -- or your cousin -- this is your cousin talking?

IB:Yeah.

HN:In the book? Stella Dushats.

IB:Yeah.

HN:Stella Dushats.

IB:Yeah. She lives in California.

HN:Ah. So, the book is called "Toward a Better Life." I have this book -- I just got it. Ha! Good. (laughs)

IB:It's coming out now --

HN:Yeah. This was -- (UNCLEAR) at the conference. I'm thinking of picking it up.

IB:He asked me to --

HN:Isn't that great.

IB:He asked me to put --

HN:Oh my God. (laughs)

IB:He's the one that asked me to put --

F1:The blurb?

IB:Yeah.

F1:The blurb -- I will (UNCLEAR) --

HN:It's a different color, right? (UNCLEAR).

IB:You showed me -- I asked Irene to -- I have to send it to them.

HN:That's wonderful.

IB:This is --

HN:Wow.

IB:This woman -- "What is today's American Dream?" -- did you see that?

HN:Yes! So this is your BBC News --

IB:Yeah, (UNCLEAR) (clears throat) --

HN:-- and it's about the -- "the Dream is to work, have a home" --

IB:See, here, she tells -- does she have to tell my age right here? (laughs)

HN:Oh my God! Can you believe it?

IB:(laughs)

HN:"It was the offer of a six-month job by a Mormon college president that enabled the Belarskys to escape from Stalin's Russia" --

IB:And take one. Take this one -- I have one. Take it.

HN:Okay. Good. Thank you. I'll take the page. Excellent.

[END OF INTERVIEW]