MARTYNA RUSINIAK-KARWAT ORAL HISTORY

CHRISTA WHITNEY:This is Christa Whitney, and today is May 7th, 2013.  I'm here in Warsaw, and I'll let you pronounce your own name, so I don't do it incorrectly.  You can just say your name.

MARTYNA RUSINIAK-KARWAT: My name's Martyna Rusiniak-Karwat.

CW:  Okay, great.  And we're going to record an interview as part of the Yiddish Book Center's Wexler Oral History Project.  Martyna, do I have your permission to record?

MRK: Yes, of course.

CW:  Thank you.  So, to start, can you tell me a little about your family background?

MRK: (laughs) Uh, I'm not Jew.  I came from Eastern Poland.  Mine fam-- my 1:00family town is Sokołów Podlaski.  It's like 100 kilometer far east from Warsaw.  I grew up in Sokołów, I finished there school, and when I was nineteen years old, I came to Warsaw to my -- to study history in Warsaw University, and in the second year, I started learn Yiddish and Jewish history, because from Sokołów, it's only, like, thirty kilometers from Treblinka, and, when I was a child, I heard from my grandmothers a lot about history from my 2:00town -- about the past, about Jews in the town, and also about death camp in Treblinka.  And I wanted to know more than taught me my grandmother.

CW:  So what -- what did you know before your studies, from your grandmother?

MRK: From -- about Sokołów or --?  I know a lot about Polish-Jewish relationships, and, in opinion from my m-- grandmother, she every time thought very good about Jews.  A lot about, this is the place where lived Jews.  This is the -- the another place -- in this building was, for example, a little 3:00synagogue.  And she tried me describe something about my roots, about my town.  And also, she taught me a lot about death camps, about wagons to Treblinka, because, for her and for her family, that was very hard time.  My mother was born during Second World War, in '43.  That I -- I must know more than I hear.

CW:  Do you -- can you say a little -- or what did you know about your family's 4:00experience during the war, and how -- how did your grandmother know these things?  Was she in the town during the war time?

MRK: My family, during the war, lived not in the town but near the town, and I think they lived normal, like a lot of people during Second World War in small villages.  Like, worked in the air (UNCLEAR).

CW:  Um-hm.  So, for a minute, can we talk about the home that you grew up in?  Can you describe the atmosphere, the sense of your home -- what was important for your family?

MRK: For my fam-- important things, I think, that -- for this time, is family, 5:00and connection between all people.  Because, for me, family is not only my mother, father, sister, brother, and also my cousins, because we have very deep connections.  We met few times every years, and because I'm the youngest in the family, in my nivo [generation, lit. "level"], and that -- that is very urgent, because my oldest cousin is, like, fifty-five years old, and we have common language, common -- a lot of common interest in things, and this is, for me, very urgent, in my family.  And open for another people, for another nations -- 6:00like, my sister is very interesting about Russian culture, me about Jewish culture -- all of -- in my family -- knows a lot, because of me, a lot of -- about Jewish history, not only in our region, but in the another regions.  And when I was in Israel, my sister came to me to -- to visit, to know more.

CW:  What were -- were there any other languages, other than Polish, in your home, growing up?

MRK: I'm from Eastern Poland, and we didn't use another languages, but I think all from my family knows Russian, and -- not all, but part -- German, from 7:00elementary school.

CW:  So, I know that you had some stories from your grandmother about Jewish people.  Did you learn -- what was the general sense, attitude, towards Jewish culture in the community?

MRK: Źebym dobrze zrozumiała pytanie [Polish: Let me understand this question correctly].

CW:  What did people think about Jews in the community, outside your family?

MRK: Um, it's -- hmm, I don't live there a lot of time, but -- and I didn't -- I didn't ask, when I grew up, about Jewish things.  I -- in Sokołów is also 8:00another young girl who made -- makes a lot of -- to memorating Jewish history.  She has connections with Sokołów landsmanshaft [association of immigrants originally from the same region] in Israel.  I think it's like in the an-- the another towns or cities.  I think not all from people knows, pers-- in personal, some Jew.  It's -- I never see, in my home or town, is, like, 9:00anti-Semitism, because I didn't see the signs of this kind of chauvinism.  It's -- I feel -- I think it's neutral feeling to the Jews, because now, in Sokołów, they don't have connection with Jews.  Maybe some people has roots, Jewish roots, but it's -- it's normal.

CW:  Was politics or religion a part of your home?  Your family?

MRK: Not.

CW:  No?

MRK: It's normal.  (laughter)

CW:  Yeah.

AGNIESZKA ILWICKA:  But did you grow up in religious home?  Like, you were celebrating Christian holidays?MRK: Yes, yes, but I'm not so religion, and this 10:00is my answer.

AI:  Like, twenty years ago, when you were attending to your primary school?

MRK: Yes, I went -- I went to the church, but not very often.  My mother, in the (laughs) elder years, became more religion, because now she comes every Sunday to the church, but, I think, only she.

CW:  Yeah, great.  Are there any particular stories from your grandmother that you remember?

MRK: That was so long time.  Before Second World War, she taught me a lot about Jewish shops, because when she came to -- to the church, every Sunday, only 11:00Jewish shops was open.  And that was -- and she taught me, in Jewish shops, she and other people, when they didn't have money, can -- could buy something for -- without money, for a list, but not in a Polish shops.  This, and -- and she was very prosty [Polish: simple] --

AI:  Simple.

MRK: -- simple woman, and, from time to time, I had problem with her, because she didn't want tell -- I'm sorry --

CW:  That's okay.

MRK: -- speak a lot of about Second World War, and -- 'cause for her was very scary time, with dying people.  She told me about ghetto, about people who go out from wagons, and they didn't ha-- they didn't have opportunity to live more, because every German look for -- because in Sokołów was a lot of Germans during Second World War, and they looked for people in the houses.

CW:  So, moving forward, how did you become interested in Jewish topics?

MRK: As I told earlier, I started -- in department of history in Warsaw University, you must have, like, specjalizacja [Polish: specialization] --

CW:  Specialization.

MRK: -- specialization, like archivist, teacher, editor, and also another specialization, like history of France, history of military, history of Jewish, and then the first time -- because I want to know more about Treblinka or 14:00Sokołów -- I wanted to read Yiddish sources, and that is the reason when -- why I came to study Jewish history.  And that was, for me, for first time very, very interesting, and when I was on the first Jewish -- Yiddish summer seminar in Poland, that was the fir-- the background to more -- to know much more than I -- and that is the reason.

CW:  Um-hm.

MRK: Trudno jest mi wyjaśnić tak do końca, dlaczego ja się zaczęłam zajmować historią żydowską aż tak [Polish: It is hard for me to explain in 15:00depth why I started to do so much research on Jewish history].  It's very fascinated, and this is that part of Polish history.

CW:  Can you say more about that?  How it's -- how you see it as part of your -- of Jewi-- of Polish history?

MRK: 'Cause Jews lived in Poland thousand years, and we -- they take part in -- for example, after Second World -- First World War, they take, for example, in this time, part with rebuilding our country, and, like, now I'm make researches about Bund and they felt like Polish Jews, and this is the mainly reason, and 16:00like a part of Poland.

CW:  We'll talk more about that, definitely, but I want to ask about that first summer seminar.  Can you describe what the seminar was and -- first of all?

MRK: That first seminar -- that was "Yidish un yidishkayt [Yiddish and Jewishness]," that was organized for all international instants [institutions], and with connection with Shalom Foundation, and -- near from Warsaw, in Śródborów, there is house from Towarzystwo Społeczno-Kulturalne Żydów w 17:00Polsce, and the course was three weeks, and, in general, was for people from Russia, from Ukraine, and Belarus, and first time was a little group from Poland, but non-Jews -- students from Kraków and from Warsaw, and from Toruń -- and we learned not only Jewish, but every day we learned about Judaism.  We celebrated every Shabbat.  We have lessons with rabbi.  And a lot of -- this 18:00is -- from this course, I learned not only Yiddish but also Russian, because I lived in -- with Russians people, and I must -- that was second group, and all was described not in Yiddish but in Russian, and I must hear -- it was Russian and Yiddish, that was very funny.  And we have lessons with Abraham Karpinowicz, Jewish great writer, and with his -- he wrote a lot about Jewish underworld in Vilna, about theater.  And lessons -- I have also lessons with his wife, Sara Łapickaja -- was very -- was very, very interesting.

CW:  Wow.  Can you just describe a little bit about those people?

MRK: Oh, it was so long time.  I think both of they had roots with Vilna, and Abraham Karpinowicz's father was director -- I don't remember exactly -- of Jewish theater in Vilna before Second World War.  And he described a lot about -- Jewish world was passed during Second World War, about Vilna, about prostytutkas, et cetera, et cetera.  And, during this course, he was very, very 20:00old.  He sing us Polish very old songs, because he remembered.  And they spoke also very beautiful Polish language, from -- with a Vilnian accent -- Lithuan-- that was very interesting.  But that was my first course.  I was -- in another 21:00courses, during next summers, but that was first.  I met then people from -- not from -- from only Warsaw, but from the another universities from Poland, and we got taught about experiences, about program of studies, about what I know, what they know, and from this time I have one of my best friends.

CW:  Can you describe sort of the community of students, or of scholars, that developed from these courses?  Your friends, colleagues?

MRK: A lot of people was from -- from Russia, and they would -- and, with the 22:00Polish students, you had common language, common problems, and one of my best friends, he studied in Institute of Polish Culture, in Warsaw University, and after the courses, she worked with movie festivals -- Jewish motives, cause she's specialist from films background.  And one of my colleague was -- now is redactor of Słowo żydowskie.  And that was mostly, for in this course were 23:00non-Jewish people from Poland, but from Russian were people with Jewish roots.  But, because chyba były takie wymagania, żeby wziąć udział w tym kursie, ze strony Post-Soviets [Polish: I think that there was a requirement to participate in such programs from the Post-Soviet side].

AI:  Oh, because that -- that was -- that was the agreement that -- for the post-Soviet Russians, do not be Jewish, right?

MRK: Right.  And when came for -- in the end, for this program, went from United States founda-- foundat-- foundation -- (UNCLEAR) foundation -- and she didn't know dur-- that in this course were also non-Jewish people, because --

CW:  Oh, the funder?  Like --

MRK: Yes.

CW:  -- the person who gave money --

MRK: Yes.

CW:  -- came?

MRK: Yes.  But I don't know why.  Maybe -- because that was like 2002 or '03, and that was new things -- non-Jewish students wanted learn Yiddish, Yiddish culture, but why -- why not Jewish people?  Because that was very strong to understand for a lot of people from abroad.  Why you but not Jew?  That was in every, every summer program.  I -- I heard this kind of question, Why you, but non-Jews from Poland interest in Jewish culture and Yiddish -- Yiddish culture, 25:00and Poland is now not Yiddish -- not -- no Jewish, but not Jewish?

CW:  What did you tell them?  Did you have your rehearsed answer for that?

MRK: I answered by question, Why not?

CW:  Great.  Well, you mentioned your first teacher, but have there been other important mentors or teachers for you, in terms of --

MRK: In the another courses?  Yes.

CW:  In terms of Yiddish language?

MRK: In Poland was one of the best teacher -- I had lessons, but not from the beginning -- Professor Ewa Geller.  And during summer courses was Professor Avrom Liktenboym, from Argentina, and also Hanan Bordin, from Israel, because he 26:00teached me grammar -- Yiddish grammar, in highest nivo.  That was most important teachers.  I learned from them most things.  I have also the another teachers, but not so important.

CW:  Yeah.  Are there any funny or interesting stories about your teachers, about learning Yiddish, that you'd wanna share?

MRK: I don't -- I never think about these things.  Avrom Liktenboym was and is a very good teacher, and teacher who connect with all students.  I think maybe not all, but a lot of, he remembers, and he loves Polish tangos, and, during 27:00classes, he taught us about tango Petersburski, because Petersbur-- Jerzy Petersburski grew up in Poland.  He was a Jew, and he wrote tango also in -- when he was -- he lived in Argentina, and Avrom -- every lessons, she -- jak powiedzieć, że potrafił rozbudzić zainteresowanie jakimś tematem [Polish: 28:00how do you explain that he could make you interested in any subject]?

AI:  He always knew how to spark your interest in some subject.

MRK: Every time she gets -- take very interesting questions -- question about you must, after lessons, a little bit to -- to think.  It's not so, like, go out and you don't remember what we have during the lessons.  Hanan is like actor.  He game every time, and she's -- he's very, very fun, and very good teacher.  Did you have lessons with?  (laughter) And he loved Eastern Europe, 'cause he came from Estonia or --

CW:  Riga.

MRK: Riga, yes.

CW:  Great.  So what were your first impressions of the Yiddish language?  29:00(Martyna laughs) What did you think?  What did you notice at first, as you were learning?

MRK: First impressions -- we had lessons in Warsaw University with -- together with students from Hebrew language, and they knows (UNCLEAR) -- alphabet?

AI:  Yeah.

MRK: And we didn't know -- it was very strange, because they could read, and from -- students from history not -- it was very, very strange, for the first time, but it was a lot of, like, Slavic words.  It -- it became every -- from lessons to lessons, more easier.  And we -- in the beginning, we learned a lot 30:00about Jewish songs, like "Tumbalalaika [Play the balalaika]" or "Vu iz dos gesele [Where is the little street]?"  And et cetera, et cetera.  And a lot of texts from "Intensive Yiddish," like "Yidn voynen in fareynikte shtatn [Jews live in the United States]," et cetera, et cetera.

CW:  Right.  So, how -- how did you become interested in -- well, first of all, can you just explain your position currently, so we can talk about some more current things?

MRK: Now I'm working in the Polish Academy of Science in Institute of Political Studies, like assistant, and I make my PhD about Bund, about Jewish Socialist Workers' Party in Poland, but after Second World War.  And, before I wrote my 31:00master thesis also about Jewish problems, about commemoration Holocaust, about Treblinka -- social memory about Treblinka, 1943, 1989, 'til the end of Communism in Poland.  And I think -- and I cooperated with now in Jewish Historical Institute where few years ago I worked in archive.  Now I cooperated with prepared to print documents from Ringelblum's archive, newspaper -- Bundist 32:00and Tsukunft newspapers.  I a little translate from Yiddish into Polish, but I don't like this, because I'm not linguistic, only historian.  And I'm the editor from volume about Bund and Tsukunft, and also in last time, I cooperate with Jewish Museum of Poland -- Jewish -- Museum of Jewish History in Poland.

CW:  Great.  So, can -- maybe we can talk for a minute about your project with Treblinka?  I'm curious what the -- from -- from your town, what was the 33:00relationship that you grew up in?  What was the relationship with the town and with Treblinka, in terms of awareness, or --MRK: It was, like, forty kilometers from Treblinka, and we can't talk about relationships between, because they didn't existed.  It's so far during Second World War.  After, like, a lot of people -- a lot of small children go to -- to the Treblinka, to visit this place, but not only Jewish Treblinka -- Treblinka second -- but also -- there is also a -- that was also Jewish -- Polish labor camp, Treblinka one.  And I wrote about, like -- about not onl-- not fr-- about the relationships from common villages about Treblinka, what people done after Second World War with 34:00the places, like Golden Harvest, like "Eldorado of Podlasie," about kopać [Polish: digging] --

AI:  Digging --

MRK: -- about digging these places, looking for something, for gold -- that was -- and I tried to explain why they did so, and also I try to describe -- to memorate in this place for all Polish and Jewish socialist groups.

CW:  I know that you do a lot of interviewing for your research.  Can you tell me the people that you've interviewed for your own research?  Like -- (overlapping dialogue; unclear)

MRK: I -- I interviewed people about, not -- of course, I made interviews around Treblinka, for example -- but that was very hard not do with camera, but only in audio -- about what is happened in this places during Second World War, and after.  About their opinion about camp, and I made interviews with Bundists in Poland, Israel, and in England.  And most of my interviews were about -- that 36:00was another project, about people who were deported during Second World War to the Soviet Union -- to Siberia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, and other places.  Every time, when I asked, that was like, I asked there, and they asked a little me, and they knew -- knew that I'm interested Jewish history, and every time, they a little described me -- described me what Jewish-Polish relationships in the Eastern borderlands in Poland, before Second World War, and also during Second World War -- in 1939 -- it was very, very interesting, because they 37:00described me another -- and good and bad relationships, because of economic, because of -- et cetera, et cetera.  And also about Polish-Jewish relationships in Siberia, like was in Polish part of barracks, like in Jewish -- like where all people are common, maybe they knew it about my interestings, and they told me only good things, I don't know.

CW:  Yeah.  Do you -- being not Jewish, were there advantages or disadvantages, do you think?  Like positive things and negative things about not being Jewish, doing the research, doing the interviews?

MRK: Jak to powiedzieć [Polish: How do you say it]?  I didn't think about this.  Maybe I -- from time to time I hear, why you did this kind of things?  Why you don't have another fields of interestings?  But it's -- in point, it's normal.  Also in the another countries, like in Israel or England -- when I last time lived in Israel, I lived in Israeli home, and the owner also is -- was 39:00PhD and -- students, and -- but she made a lot about Jewish-German relationships, and for her was very strange to, because she may -- met first time Polish people who were interest in Jewish history, but that was only one thing.  Every time I met very good -- that this is very important.

CW:  Is -- so, when do you actu-- when do you have an opportunity to use your Yiddish?  In terms of, just when you're researching, or ever outside of your academic research?

MRK: Godzie mam szansę [Polish: Where can I] --

AI:  -- szansę mówić [Polish: opportunity to speak] --

MRK: -- w jidysz [Polish: in Yiddish].  Now only -- in Poland, it's very strange to find this kind of place, but only during course -- summer courses.  Of course, this is not living language.  But last time, when I was in -- at Twarda 6, Union of Jewish veteran-- veterans, and I talked with one man Yiddish -- for me it was very, very funny, because I -- for me it's very beautiful language, and now I can only read and hear in internet, or by YouTube, but in the living, I never -- I didn't been so long time in Yiddish courses, and it's 41:00too hard to find this kind of people.  But when I was in PhD studies in Warsaw University, I had lessons with students, and in this time, had lessons from Yiddish, Dr. Kobi Weitzner, and during -- between the lessons, from time to time, he talked me Yiddish, but -- and for him, it's the mame-loshn [mother tongue language], and this is -- that was also good, because I have connection with living language, not only in books, documents, manuscripts, et cetera.

CW:  From your perspective as a historian, what is the place of -- of Jewish 42:00topics in -- in the fie-- in the Polish academy in general, right now?

MRK: It's hard to me to answer, because, when I work in Polish Academy of Science, and only me or two people interest in Jewish history, but not, like, generally, like me.  And I don't want to answer for this question.

CW:  Sure.  I have a few more, but do you have a question or two?

AI:  I do.  I would like to ask you about -- how did you feel when you gave talk in TSKZ in Warsaw, in the front of Jews who stay in Poland -- you as this 43:00blonde girl from Podlasie, standing in the front of the old Jews from Warsaw -- what was your feeling, but also what was the reaction of the audience, for you standing in the front of them, and telling them the story of this, what they experienced?

MRK: And now I feel normal, but the first time, I was lighter hair.  It was very, very interesting, because, like, told me every time my best friend, "But you don't like -- look like for a Jew," and that's normal.  But, with my blonde hair, I was in Shabbat in Lubavitch, in Vilna -- it was normal.  We talked.  They asked me -- that was very, very interesting and polite.  Maybe -- and now 44:00-- once time for me was very strange, because I had lecture about Jewish history after Second World War in Mazowsze.  It was for people from -- from TSKZ, and telling something about history for people who knows personally this history, was very strange in the beginning, but in the end was very, very nice.  And when I goes to, from time to time, to Twarda 6, that seems from people, because I feel there good, maybe not -- I don't feel like this is, for me, obcy --

AI:  Strange.

MRK: Strange place, but this is, like, place, one from the another.  If you feel good, they -- odbierają cię [Polish: the response to you] --

AI:  The reception of you --

MRK: The reception of you much more better.

CW:  Great.  Can you describe what -- maybe a little bit about where we are, for, maybe, the audience who -- who have never been to Warsaw?  Sort of, where are we?

MRK: We are in Próżna-Hoiz -- this is coffee place in Próżna Street, this -- that was very important place for Jewish from Warsaw, before Second World War, because this is, like, Jewish place, with a Yiddish, Jewish parties, et cetera, et cetera.  This is a street connected with Isaac Bashevis Singer person, and now, every year, in this place, in this street, is Singer's festival.  And it's 46:00connected with Jewish culture, Jewish people, Jewish language, Jewish eatings, et cetera, et cetera.

CW:  Great.  Yeah --

AI:  Could you please tell about Jewish theater, because just next to this street, it's Jewish theater, and Plac Grzybowski, place TSKZ, could you --

MRK: Ah, yes.

AI:  -- describe this place, because you know them from -- from your personal visits?

MRK: Yes, I forgot.  Not so far from -- this is like place of Jewish lives now, also, because there is, like -- not so far from here is synagogue, Nożyków -- is place of Jewish -- Jewish papers -- newspapers, like, "Słowo żydowskie" and 47:00"Midrasz," about also the place -- it's not far from -- from here is, like, coffee Pardon, To Tu, where it's connected with -- I think with a Jewish atmosphere.  Not so far from here, we can eat something kosher, buy something kosher in Jewish shops, and also is Jewish theater, only one who existed now in Poland.  I don't know, maybe a few years ago, there was Yiddish --

CW:  Plays, or --

MRK: Yes.  But now I think not, only like a few phrases in -- but there are spektakle --

AI:  Performances.

MRK: -- performances about Jewish theme.

CW:  And can you just explain what TSKZ is, just for people who might not know?

MRK: Hmm, English --

AI:  It's a Jewish association for social and cultural life in Poland.  But maybe, could you briefly tell the story, because that's also part of your dissertation, what is really fascinating.

MRK: Not part of my dissertation, but, after Second World War, Jewish -- Jews tried rebuilding -- it's not only religion part life, but also socialist life, and they created Centralny Komitet Żydów w Polsce -- Central Committee of Jews in Poland -- and when, in nineteen for-- this is, in very short --

CW:  Sure.

MRK: In 1949, they -- because, in Poland, became the another regime like communist, and from Jewish streets is -- was disappear Jewish parties, and a lot of Jewish people was emigrated to -- to Israel, to United States, and the another places.  And from the -- and Jews with -- with -- you can say, with agreement from Polish government, they created TSKZ, and this is -- that was, 50:00like Agnieszka said, for non-religion -- this is institute -- that was -- this is institution for Jewish people who not -- not exactly connected with their religion.  And they gave -- they arranged cultural life, social life, in the '50s years, also, courses of Yiddish and Russian, because that was the political.

CW:  Right.  From -- at least, from the American context, there's a lot of discussion of a revival, a growing interest of Jewish topics in Poland.  Do -- have you seen an increase in interest, in the time that you've been involved?

MRK: Yes, I see -- because, when I started to learn Yiddish, in Poland it's not -- it wasn't so many specialists and people -- students -- from this topic.  And now it's much more.  In -- we have Jewish studies in Wars-- in Kraków, in Wrocław, in Poznań -- is a lot specialists in Łódz, Warsaw, mainly Warsaw, and now, when is Jewish museum in Warsaw, I think it became more brighter.

CW:  Do you have any idea or -- why it became more popular?

MRK: Maybe Polish people became more open for -- for another cultures.  I don't know, maybe this political of country, a little bit, we can -- now we can make what -- what we want, not like earlier.

CW:  As an academic, do you see a role that the Academy plays in transmitting Jewish culture?  In teaching, and spreading Jewish culture to others?

MRK: Years ago, in Warsaw University, was like Jewish Day in the university -- it was only twice -- and now we have a lot of conferences from students about 53:00Jewish topics.  In Warsaw, in this year -- in Warsaw, Kraków, Wrocław -- I think also in Białystok, but I'm not sure.  It's very urgent, because it's much more opportunities than it was a few years ago.

AI:  So you think that, in that sense, university plays the role of the factor what -- what is giving impact?

MRK: Maybe not only university, but, like, in -- in Kraków, we have much more centers from Jewish culture, also in Warsaw -- this is very important, because university -- university has connection with these centers.  I think so.  This is very urgent, 'cause during the lecture, we told to students is, for example, 54:00we have "Cwiszn," the news-- cultural newspapers, or the meetings with Twarda and places, and this is --

CW:  Yeah.  Is there any connection for you personally between your academic interest and your personal identity or personal life?

MRK: I can tell, I live my work, and this is the connection.  When you interesting and work very much, you bring these works at home.  And you talk -- you have books, Jewish books, about Jewish history, et cetera, Jewish culture, and so --

CW:  Yeah.  Well, we began by talking about your hometown -- how has studying this history changed the way you see your own hometown, if it has?

MRK: Studying Jewish history of my town also must know much more about general history of my town, and now I'm came -- when I'm there, 'cause I'm not very often goes to my parents -- I went, and I, during the going for all streets, I saw one and thought, What is -- what was in these places?  What was in the other places?  I am historian.  This is in -- this is the same in the other places, in the other cities I -- I saw -- patrzę --

AI:  I see -- I look at the --

MRK: I look at for places like a historian.  What is happened, was -- is this Roman, Gothic, et cetera.

CW:  Right.  So, I just have two more questions.  Do you -- do you have a favorite Yiddish word or a song?

MRK: No song.  (laughs) I have very bad --

CW:  Or a favorite word or phrase?

MRK: Every time, I'm -- now I am only read about Bund, and Jewish socialists, and it's -- this is, from one part -- from one side, a very simple question, and for me, every time it's a trouble.

CW:  That's okay.  Do you have anything else?  I just have one more.

AI:  Yeah.  I just want to ask you how do you feel -- that's a bit coming back to the university position, but it's very interesting to know -- how do you feel as a teacher for Jewish culture, as a part of Polish history?  How do you -- how you find yourself in that position?  What do you feel about that?

MRK: Every time I must -- when I -- because, in my stud-- not only -- now I have only one group students, and every time I must be objective about teaching, and -- now I have only lessons about Jewish history after Second World War.  It's much more easier than during Holocaust, dur-- about pogroms, et cetera, et cetera.  That's normal.  You must teach, and you must be correct, objective, 58:00et cetera.

CW:  Great.  Do you have any advice to, maybe students who are interested in Jewish history in Poland?

MRK: Advice?

AI:  Rada.  Słowo mądrości. [Polish: Advice. A word of wisdom.]

MRK: Every time, when students -- because sometimes my students are elder than me -- like now, because I have -- now I have only lessons with -- because, in my institute, we -- we don't teach people, we only sit and make researches, and I have, like, guest lessons with students in -- podyplomowy studia [Polish: post-graduate studies].

AI:  Post-graduate students.

MRK: Post-graduate student -- studies from Jewish culture and history.  Every time, because a lot of people think that it wasn't existed, Jewish life after 59:00Second World War, and every time, I try explain what's very -- in the beginning was very rich, this kind of life.  And I try to interesting my students and give them books, advices, what they can do without knowledge of Yiddish, because not all of them knows Yiddish.

CW:  Great.  Anything else you want to say before we close?

MRK: No.

CW:  Okay.  Well, a sheynem dank -- thank you very much, for taking --

MRK: Nito far vos [You're welcome].

CW:  -- the time.

MRK: Mitn groysn fargenign [With great pleasure].

[END OF INTERVIEW]