INESSA SLOOTSKIN ORAL HISTORY

AGNIESZKA ILWICKA:This is Agnieszka Ilwicka, and today is 8th of July, 2013. I'm here at the Yiddish Book Center in Amherst, Massachusetts with Inessa Slootskin, and we are going to record an interview as part of the Yiddish Book Center Wexler Oral History Project. Inessa, do I have your permission to record this interview?

INESSA SLOOTSKIN:Of course.

AI:Thank you very much. I would like to start from the question -- can you tell me briefly what you know about your family background?

IS:I probably know quite a few things, because my grandmother was born in 1:00Vitebsk, and they're oldest -- old Lubavitche [Hasidic sect] Jewish born -- and she was there. Her Yiddish was exclusively good. And it was very dangerous during the World War II because when she would open her mouth, everybody would know who she was. So, she pretended to be mute. And I not supposed to talk to her -- just show some gestures by hands. So, I know her very well, and she survived the war and I remember very well. And my mother, of course, one hundred percent Jewish, but my father was not Jewish. And in Russia, in documents, I was like a Belarus, because they go after father. And so, that's all I know. His 2:00family lived in a village in Belarus. And he died in the World War II, they killed him. Russians killed him. And after the war, we lived again in Minsk. And --

AI:Please stop for moment.

IS:Yeah.

AI:Before we will go to what happened, I would like to ask you, is that mean that your grandmother was from Hasidic family?

IS:At this time, already, after the revolution, there was no religion, no Hasidic movement. They closed synagogues almost everywhere. And, of course, churches, too. But synagogues were closed, and so she's not -- no religion was 3:00-- just Yiddish language, that's all we --

AI:But, still, would you say that you grew up in a Jewish home?

IS:Probably not, because it was not allowed to -- any religion or anything. So, how it was Jewish, I just remember my mother talking with my grandmother in Yiddish. So, I knew that I was Jewish. And also, when I was playing with kids, many of them knew who my mother was -- Jewish. So, they would call me "Zhid, zhidovka [Russian: Jew, Jewess (pejorative)]." That's how they -- and always, even close friends -- we'll play outside and they -- "Zhidovka, zhidovka, zhid," always. And so, that's how I was.

AI:So, that was the Jewish part of your identity.

IS:That's all, because we did not have religion. But this is 1917, they closed all this, and I had no idea, even, who Moses was or who -- how, what? Nothing.

AI:So, what kind of religious or secular holidays did you celebrate in your home?

IS:You see, they did not know even the Jewish calendar. They did not know where -- Passover -- what -- any holidays. And later, after the war, quite a few years later, we were able to buy matzah, and it was underground. It was not allowed. But if some people knew each other, they would somehow, during the night -- I don't know where did they bake it. They would bring -- and we would hide it, and 5:00we had matzah. That's all we knew about Jewish holidays, and that's all.

AI:Tell me, what languages were spoken in your home? By whom to whom, when? We know already that Yiddish was important, and --

IS:Yiddish was my grandmother, because my mother spoke with her. And, of course, Russian. And that's all.

AI:And what language do you speak to your friends or what languages were you surrounded by -- by your neighbors?

IS:It was Russian. Russian, Russian, Russian. Some spoke Belarussian, Belarus, but Russian. Russian language, that's all.

AI:Tell me briefly about place where you grew up, about Brest-Litovsk and about other places where you were -- first of all, where you were born and then where -- we'll do step-by-step during the war and after.

IS:You see, I was born in Minsk, because my mother was a teacher, history teacher, in Minsk, and my father was also a teacher. Biology. And he was a principal of the school. And I was born in 1938. But in nineteen-- yeah, in 1938, Stalin and Hitler, they made a pact, you know? And they divided Poland, land of Poland, between Germany and Russia. And the bord-- was in Brest-Litovsk. Brest-Litovsk was on the border. Then Stalin, when they came to Poland, arrested all these Polish teachers, intelligents-- sent to Siberia. And instead, he sent, 7:00from Russia, teachers to work in Poland. So, my -- Brest-Litovsk was -- before it was Poland, but then it was the Soviet Union. My father and mother were sent to work in Brest-Litovsk. So, I was born in Minsk, but they send -- when I already was born, they sent my parents to live in Brest-Litovsk. And when the war started in 1941, from Brest-Litovsk, from Brest, nobody would escape, because the war started during the night. The Germans were before this, and everybody was saying that it's -- a German delegation came for something, and it 8:00was nice and quiet night. Everybody was sleeping. And all of a sudden, our nanny run to my parents' room and said, "Uncle Misha, uncle Misha, close the windows, is thunderstorm." So, he gets up and see the -- through the window, and he says, "It's not a storm, it's a war," because Russians did not know that the war started. Nobody knew. Nobody --

AI:Expected --

IS:Absolutely nobody, except for the government. Government knew, of course, what's going on. But people did not know. So, he just see the artillery and all this. And he grabs me, and nothing more. And my mother and my grandmother was 9:00with us, visiting from Minsk, and they start running to the east, towards east. Running, running. All of a sudden, from the east, people running back. And they said, Germans are there, already. So, we returned and did not escape. Whole war, we were under the occupation.

AI:How old you were when the war started?

IS:Okay, about three and few months, because I was born in January '38, and war started in '41. So, three years old. And when the war was finished, I was close to six. Not war finished, but Minsk was liberated.

AI:Yeah. Please tell me about your feelings. How did you feel about your home before the war and after? Do you have any memory from your home before the war?

IS:Before the war, I don't remember. But during the war, I remember some things, during the war. And, of course, after the war.

AI:Okay, so please, let's talk for now about what happened during the Second World War, and then we will move to the part after the war. But right now, let's focus on the Second World War. Germans came to Brest-Litovsk.

IS:Yes.

AI:And then, your family was under the German occupation for almost three years.

IS:Yeah.

AI:Tell me about that. What happened? How --

IS:Of course. So, when my father and me and my grandmother returned to our 11:00apartment in Brest -- and this was a war already. Nobody know what to do, how to -- but the thing was, my father had a teacher who was a Polish lady. Her name was Danylchik, the last name. And she had a house, not in the city but very far from city, right on the border of some forest, woods and something. So, first, probably, a couple of months, we did live in town, first, before people around would understand who we were. But then, we moved to her house. And quite a long time, she was -- we were hiding there in her house. And especially, I remember very well -- it was nice village. And behind her house, the woods and 12:00everything. And many bushes with berries. And a little chair, like a round mushroom, red. And I was sure that if somebody comes, I can sit on this chair behind -- nobody will find me. That's what -- I remember very well this chair. And she was very nice lady. And she actually helped us during probably maybe close to a year. She was -- and also, many families was killed -- not Jewish families, but they're -- who knows what? And houses were empty. So, it was possible to move from one house to another house, and that's how it was then. 13:00And I never would go outside to play with kids, because then they would know what -- but somehow, my father was able to get some food -- and because of her help, this lady, Danylchik. So, that's what -- we were there. And after probably close to a year, the partisan movement started, because before, nobody knew. But then, some people escaped from ghettos, and some Russian -- how to say it? Warriors or -- soldiers. They were surrounded by Germans. So, they flee to the forests, and after close to a year, the partisan movement started. This partisan 14:00movement started, and my father right away was looking for how to get there to the forest, to the partisans. And somehow, he did find the attachment of partisans. And I remember very well that this was after the war, they sent me from Minsk.

AI:Could you please show the front to the camera, to me? Yes.

IS:This was -- this. This -- they send me -- when we were here, my cousins --

AI:Here, meaning in America?

IS:Yeah. My cousins sent me this. And what I know and what I remember -- this 15:00man -- and we were in this partisans' detachment. Partisans of the detachment, they call, in Russian, "bor'ba," which is "struggle." And "brigade" was "people avengers," which, in Russian, "narodnyye mstiteli." And this man was political leader and fought against anti-Semitism. So, this says what was in partisans -- he was against the anti-Semite, but still a lot of partisans -- they would not accept Jewish people to the detachment because they don't want them to hide -- they wanted to be killed by Germans. So, it was almost impossible for Jews to 16:00get there. But I remember well that this was the name of where we were when we were there.

AI:And what was the name of your father?

IS:My father was Mikhail, Michael. Mikhail Fodorevich. And last name, Zadora. And my name was all the time Zadora. But then, when we came here in 1980, they said that my name should be my husband's name, last name. But before, it was Zadora, everywhere. Let's see, it -- and my cousin sent me this. And also, when the war -- not the war, but when they liberated Minsk in 1944 -- the war 17:00finished in 1945, but when they liberated Minsk, '44, from forest, from the woods, my mother came to Minsk, and we came to Minsk, moved. And since then, we lived in Minsk -- already liberated.

AI:Okay, is there anything about the war -- what you would you like to say?

IS:So, during the war, when my father found this detachment, he moved us, because we were under the danger -- moved us to the detachment. And how it was, the partisans themselves, they lived -- in forests, they lived. And they had this -- in the forest, they build, for them, special "ziemianka [Polish: 18:00dugout]," they called it. In the ground. So, partisans were there. But in very close villages to this, Germans would not come to -- this close. They also were in the woods. Families, kids, and womens [sic] lived there. So, we lived in the village, but my grandmother was making, for them, for the partisans, from the bedsheets of something -- white covers, because -- for the snow, when they go -- so, that's what she was doing, this -- and my mother, too. And so, they were working, and I remember this: I was going there, and sometimes I sleep there with the partisans. And I was probably very good. I was telling them children's stories, like "Marian Falski," how to -- in English. And they liked it so much, 19:00because their families were who knows where? And this little girl was telling them all the -- whatever, and I had known a lot. And I liked it, also, there. That's what I remember very well.

AI:So, that means that the people were nice to you? They treat you nicely?

IS:Yeah, yeah! Yeah, very nicely.

AI:So, you didn't -- how -- do you think that you could possibly experience some anti-Semitism from them, as a Jew, because they weren't Jewish people?

IS:No, I did not think about this, even. I did not know and I did not think. But when we came there, my father brought us there and we were in a village with the other families. All I remember in this house, in the middle of -- was big table. And one food, we have potatoes. So, at, I don't know, dinner -- they had, like, 20:00lunch here, during the day. All the potatoes were on the table, and everybody surround the table and took the potatoes. This was our food. That's what I remember. But then, my mother said when potato came, I always had to run to the bathroom. I did not like to eat. I was very skinny, and I did not. But anyway, that's what we lived in the villages.

AI:Do you remember the name of the villages?

IS:I remember one name: Krasnaya, red village, Krasnaya. That I remember. Krasnaya. Ah, so what I wanted to say, when he brought us there, the very next 21:00day, partisan came to my mother and said, "We killed your husband because he wanted to escape. He tried to run away, and we killed him." We never saw his body, we never knew where he was buried. And definitely, it was not true, because these people, anti-Semites there, killed him. They thought that he was Jewish also, because of family and everything. So they killed him, and they came to my mother, said he wanted to escape. He was working hard to bring us there and to fight Germans. He never would even think to leave us and to escape. And 22:00that's what -- so, this anti-Semite in the partisans -- a lot of them were there. They would not accept -- people from ghetto wanted to escape, they would not let them. They would not take them. Then, Jewish people from Minsk ghetto organized their own detachment, afterwards. But these people, so many of them, anti-Semite and everything. But then, Jewish people organized their own detachment. But it was probably after one year, even more. That's how. And --

AI:And in what year, your father was killed?

IS:Right away -- it was probably the end of '41. I even don't exactly know. Or the beginning, '42, when the partisans were -- yeah.

AI:So, how did you survive without help from man and non-Jew? 'Cause you stayed 23:00-- three Jewish women during the next years of the war. Who helped you?

IS:So, first year, like I said, this Polish woman. And so, it -- but now -- oh, first of all, nobody supposed to know that we were Jewish. But the very first day, somehow, my father changed my mother's documents. The passport, they wrote somehow -- her name was Bella Abromovna, and they made it Bronja Yaframavna -- somehow. And my grandmother did not have any documents and she did not speak. So, anybody supposed to know that -- Jewish. This is the first thing what they did, right away. And that's why they did not live in our apartment in Brest, 24:00because people would know who they are. So, they left for villages and they were like this. So, that's how.

AI:Do you remember the moment of liberation?

IS:Oh, it was a long time, and it was very bad, because all this -- about three years, we were in the villages and these partisans -- and at the end, what was happen, German troops were pulling back because -- as the Soviet troops were fighting them. And they were putting back, and they call it great blockade. They were cleaning all the woods and villages, killing people. They were otstupayut 25:00[Russian: retreating], how to say? You know, and they were killing all people. So, all the families -- the partisans themselves went to fight with the Germans. But families were hiding in the woods, walking around. And no bread, no water, no nothing. And I remember very well, to have water, we had to -- it was swamps, you know? Like, in Belarus, it's a lot of this -- so, to put this like this, to have water. And then, I was the main bread provider. I was the main -- because I was a little girl, probably cute, I don't know. So, my mother and grandmother 26:00were hiding in the forest, and I would go to the villages and ask for piece of bread. And they would give it to me, because little girl, you know, people were not so bad. So, I would take some bread from -- but it was also quite difficult to know where to go, because it could be -- anywhere could wait for me to be killed. But I went and brought some bread to them, some cooked potatoes or something, because in the forest then, we could not make fire, nothing. And it was great blockade. Germans were cleaning the territory and everything, and we were hiding there. It was quite a long time.

AI:So, where exactly did you hide? Did you hide in some ziemianka or did you hide in some house?

IS:Some ziemianka, some just from a -- and it was summer, so it was summer of the '44. So, it was normal. We were walking, walking, hiding, you know? And then, Germans caught us, of course, all -- many, many families. And they put us on, like, kind of hill or something. Many families with kids were sitting there. And one time -- and I remember, like, a few babies were laying down there. Nobody knew where their parents were. They -- they were just, like, thrown away. This I remember also very well. And we were sitting on this hill, many families, 28:00and Germans down the hill, all of a sudden, they put, like, a chain. And pulymiot [Russian: machine guns], how to -- and for the people to -- so, everybody was, like, ready to die. They --

AI:They just shoot them down?

IS:That's what they prepare to do. Like this. And my mother told me that I hugged her and said to her that, "I will cry anyway. We will -- our -- our troops will fight you," like I was -- so, they prepared, then they got up, turned around, and left. I don't know what it was. It was so strange. And so, we 29:00were in Germans' hands. Nobody wanted to -- where to go, what? Ah, and one more thing was when partisans went to fight with Germans, the families were left there without any protection with anything. And one man from the partisans came to my mother and brought a little boy, the same like I was. And he said that, "I -- I don't know what to do. Maybe you will take him." My mother said, "I don't know what will happen to us. Where -- where could I" -- "So, if you will be killed, he will be killed. But I go to fight. I cannot do anything." So, this little boy was with us all this time, and I was walking and asking for bread, but he did not. He was a gentleman. He did not want to be a beggar, (laughs) you 30:00know? So, anyway, we survived and this boy survived. And his father, also, after the war, he came to us. And after the -- and took the son. The son's name was Lyovichka -- Lova. Lyovichka. I remember very well. So, he took this son, and after the war, when we came back to Minsk, my mother somehow -- somebody told her that this boy's mother was Jewish. And when Germans came, his father took the mother to Germans to save his own life. So, he went and she -- "Take this Jew." And they killed her. That's how it was. So many people would give up even 31:00their own relatives, such anti-Semite and everything. And that's how it was. It was unbelievable. And then, we were surrounded by Germans and everything. And then, German troops were fighting, I don't know. So, we were sitting there, in -- close to a village. But in the woods, just with nothing. No houses, no nothing. And finally, somebody came, a man, who was also from partisans detachment. And he said, "I can take you through the front, to meet the Russian -- how to pass Germans." So, right away, my -- but the other people did not want 32:00to go. They were scared. How we will pass? Because we were sitting there in the woods and we heard German music. They were there, the soldiers, and they were -- patifon [Russian: gramophone], you know? Music and everything. It was right here. So, where to go? How to pass them? So, this man said, "I -- I will show you. I -- I think I know how to." So, my mother, my grandmother, and me got up. But the other people did not want to, families. They were scared. But when my mother got up and went, they followed her. Kind of she was -- so, he saved, my mother told me, about thirty-something people. But when we were walking on the edge of the woods, we could hear German music and dogs, ho-ho, all this. German 33:00Shepherds, they had. And until now, I hate German Shepherds. I cannot see them -- because that's what Germans had. Everywhere they go, they would have these dogs with them. And also, I did not know German language, but all I remember until now, "Achtung, Achtung [German: Attention, attention]!" That's what they -- oh my God. I never would like to go to Germany, to Berlin. Some people go and see -- one of my friends from Minsk, in maybe '70 or '80s, lives now in Berlin, from Minsk. I cannot hear the German language, I cannot -- that's how it's 34:00inside of me, yeah.

AI:I would suggest that we will move a bit from the wartime to the time after the war, and about your childhood and then teenage-hood under the Soviet rule. 'Cause that's also another difficult part. But I think it would be good to talk about it. Could you please briefly tell me about your education? But what I would like to know -- it's about the general education -- so, that means the Soviet Union education, and if you participated in any Jewish organizations. But let's start from the general Soviet education, how it was after -- the war is end, you move to Minsk, and then what?

IS:Yeah, the war ended, I was six years old. And my mother found a job as a teacher first. She was history teacher. And I was six years old, which is not school year yet. But she was working. It was no kindergartens or anything. So, I went to school when I was six years. I went to the first-grade school and I was starting, so I was -- and we lived across the street from the school. And I started there, ten years, like it should be. I got my diploma with silver medal, and then I wanted to be a teacher. I wanted very much to be a teacher like my 36:00mother was, my father, and I loved children, and that's what I wanted to be. But our neighbor -- we lived in the building -- it was also strange -- was five, probably, families, and each room was a family. Each room. And one kitchen for everybody, and a toilet outside. Of course, no bathroom, no nothing -- outside. So, one of the neighbors was Russian or Belarussian woman. Very anti-Semitic. She was, like, oh! So, she knew who I was, and if I applied to this institute for teaching, she would definitely -- no way, because she knew when I was 37:00graduated from school, it means that I apply somewhere. Only when -- if I would put my documents there, which I wanted so much, I would not be able to get in, because of her. She was -- oh, I remember her very well. Also, she had no husband, but she brought some kind of drunken who knows what, and he was drinking all the time. And during the day, he was in the corridor, laying down, so we could not open our door. It was horrible. But anyway -- but then, somebody suggested -- my mother's friends -- for me to go to be an engineer, in engineering school -- that there is much more difficult to be -- and because I had a silver medal, I would take only one exam, just mathematics or -- I don't 38:00remember well. And so, I went there, to be an engineer. HVAC. Heating, ventilation, air conditioning engineer, which I did not have an idea what it is. But he said that it's easier to be accepted in this. And I went and I was graduated very good, also. And I did not feel any anti-Semitism or anything like this. Normal. Maybe it was, of course, but some people would not be accepted to school, some people would not get the job. Of course, it was. But it was the way of life. So, we kind of got used to this, and that's how it was.

AI:In 1948, the Israel state was established, and Stalin changed his policy towards -- to the Jews. Did you experience any terror from the Soviet government because of your Jewish origin?

IS:No, we did not, in particular, because we're not -- maybe some people who were higher or something, they could've been, probably, something -- experience, but we were like nothing. We were very low, and we had no anything. And, I don't know, only from our neighbors, you know? Even when I was a kid, I was playing with children like me. All of a sudden, there's some "Zhid, zhid, zhidovka." This was a normal and nobody would -- "Oh, okay." But some people who did have work, a job -- I did not experience it, personally. But some people would lose 40:00their job, and many things like this. This was normal.

AI:Could you please describe me your neighborhood in Minsk? Who are the people who you lived with, because you lived in one apartment and each room belonged to other people --

IS:So, one woman, which I told you this was, oy, terrible. She lived in one room. Then, in two bigger rooms -- so, in one room was Jewish professor with the wife, and they had two daughters. But they were grown up already. So, one daughter, her name was Luba, she had also two daughters. And another one was 41:00Lena. And she got married. Her husband -- they were Jewish -- her husband was Shmelkin, and he was a (mimics playing the cymbals) tsimbala [Russian: cymbal player], you know, the player. So, it was two of the old people. One was the husband and daughter and one without husband but with daughter. So seven or eight people in these two rooms lived. And this woman -- and I don't remember who else. Ah, in one small room, very little room, also, one of my mother's friend -- she lost her husband and she was living in a little room, I don't know. And the kitchen, and that's all. That's how we lived there. And it was normal.

AI:And how Minsk looked like after the war?

IS:And I have how it looked like. It was all destroyed. This was -- I don't know if it will be seen. All this.

AI:Perfect, if you will put it -- more, more -- no, no, no, towards -- yeah, great.

IS:See? This. And it says here January 15, '45. This my mother wrote, probably. So, all this, from this pictures were made this. I don't know when they made it. This and this. So, that's what was -- all the buildings were like this. Only 43:00wooden buildings, some -- where we lived. A few. But big buildings were destroyed. And this is my mother. That's what they did all the time, to try to restore, during the summer. And here is -- during the winter, here's my mother, also. That's what they tried to build back. That's what I have.

AI:The city of ruins.

IS:Ruins. All ruins.

AI:Do you think that it gave impact on the general life, that the feeling of depression and the sadness?

IS:You know, when it's normal life, that's what you think, It's normal. Of course, it was difficult to go and to do this work for my mother, for example. But that's how it was. And when people live this life, they don't feel that it could be different. That's what it is. And that's how it was.

AI:Okay, so let's move forward. But before we will go to your adult life in Soviet Union, I want to ask you about your mother and grandmother. After the war, they also spoke Yiddish? Or they kind of switched into Russian? What language --

IS:My grandmother -- with my mother -- they spoke Yiddish. Some Russian's words or whatever, but Yiddish. But then, my mother's sister came from the war. She 45:00was -- all four years in the war, and she was wounded very badly in her stomach and she was, oh, terrible. So, then, they spoke Russian mostly. And then, when Minsk was liberated in, what, '44, my mother's other sister came from evacuation with two kids, and they also lived in our room, all of us. So, they also spoke Russian. And just a few Yiddish words like "shlimazl" or (laughs) some like this I remember. "Shlimazl," "shlemiel," that's all. But they mostly spoke Russian, 46:00because the kids and everything, and -- and I wanted very much to tell you about this picture.

AI:Please do.

IS:Ah?

AI:Absolutely, of course.

IS:Because it's -- I don't know how -- when it's -- but that's how it was. And, like I said --

AI:You'll have to keep it more up, please. A bit more up. Thank you.

IS:And like I said, everybody would say that Jews did not fight in the war, did not fight Germans. But this is my grandmother's family. In the middle is my grandmother. Okay, so, this is her son. He was a major in the war. He ended in 47:00Berlin. He was -- and he lost his right hand. And left, he had all of these three fingers after the war. He was wounded. Then, this is my mother's older sister. And this is her husband. Her husband, four years, was in a tank. Four tanks were destroyed, and his escaped. Whole war, he was in a tank. How to say "tankist [Russian: tank operator]"?

AI:Tankist.

IS:Da, tak on [Russian: Yes, so he] -- he ended up in Berlin, and from Berlin, he brought us a few shmates [pieces of cloth]. (laughs) Real shmates, from 48:00Berlin. Then, this -- I said my grandmother's daughter -- and she also has medals and everything. She was a lieutenant in the army, all war. And this, her nephew, my grandmother's, he came from the war without foot, absolutely like this.

AI:Without the whole leg.

IS:And he was -- yeah, without leg. He was in the crutches or whatever. And then, this was also -- I don't remember his name -- also, in the war, the medals and everything. And this is also her nephew. So, you see, one family, and so many people were really in the war. But this Russian anti-Semite always was 49:00accusing Jews not fighting Germans. This was always like this. So, what else can I tell?

AI:I would like to ask you about 1952. How old -- because -- how old you were in 1952? You were fourteen years old.

IS:Thirty-eight -- '52. And what was --

AI:The 1952 was the famous year when Stalin killed his doctors. It was the doctors' famous case, and also the Yiddish writers. And that started the total destruction of the Yiddish culture in Russia. And do you remember that time? It was important for your family? Or it was just part of the regular life?

IS:No, it was also -- especially my mother, she knew all this. And they were talking -- but they did not talk to us with -- with the children, because what we -- you know, nothing. Even that we were already almost adult, but no, we did not talk about this. But then, when Stalin died -- what year was it? I don't remember. Stalin --

AI:Nineteen fifty-three.

IS:So, all these Russians were -- oh, they were walking on the main street and -- da-da-da-da. But maybe because of all these previous things, I remember that we were happy. And we were very happy that he died, finally. And we did not cry 51:00like all the others, and it was good. So, that's what I remember.

AI:I remember from Poland, and from some stories that it was dangerous to not cry after Stalin's death.

IS:Yeah, yeah.

AI:So, since you were happy, it was also dangerous, right?

IS:I just did not go like all the students and the children. They were walking on the main street -- crying and this -- I did not go there. And we kind of were happy. My mother explained to me and everything -- and we were good. So, we did not cry for him. (laughs) No way. (laughs) No.

AI:Did you have any books in your home? Because you grew up in an educated home.

IS:We have so many books now. Every room full of books. And what we had in 52:00Russia -- we came here in 1980. So, in Russia, it was not easy to buy books. But my husband, he was working and traveling to all the small villages and everything. There, he was able to buy books. So, he bought so many books for the time we were -- what year we were married? I was, like, twenty years old, maybe -- '55? No. What was it?

AI:Fifty-eight, since you were twenty.

IS:Oh, yeah? So, I was maybe even nineteen. But anyway, we know each other from the school when we were young. And then, when I was on the third year in the university, in the institute, we got married. So, he was traveling, and he 53:00bought so many books -- we had -- that it was the only thing which we were able to leave Russia, because he sold all -- the truck came to our home. They put all these books, and they gave us money, because we had to pay government to leave Russia -- and it was -- we had two children. So, four of us -- he sold all these books. It was a treasure. And did not have any savings or any credit cards or -- nothing. We did not have anything. So, we sold whatever we had. Books, mainly, and piano, also. My mother gave my daughter -- but whatever -- we sold everything and paid Russian government for each person. And now, also, we have 54:00three-bedroom apartment. Every wall covered with bookshelves, because he's crazy about it. But all books now, it's in English. Very few Russian. Very few. But Yiddish or Hebrew, we cannot read. All I know is I started now to go once a week or twice a week to the Lubavitche on the Carriage Road, the synagogue in Stamford? I don't know if you know. And my favorite person there is a rebbe, Levi Mendelow. He is amazing. So, before, when I lived in Russia, like I said, I 55:00did not know even who Moses was and what is the religion? We did not have -- we did have, before the war, one synagogue. But then, they made a theater there. So, no synagogue, no -- nothing with the --

AI:A Jewish theater or Russian theater?

IS:Russian theater, yeah. And did not know anything. But now, when we moved here to Stamford, I go to this -- like I said, once a week -- they have classes -- in California, they have Jewish Learning Institute. So, they publish a book, let's say, for six classes. Different topics. And it's not very much, but maybe, like, for six classes, I pay sixty dollars, sometimes ninety dollars. So -- usually 56:00Wednesdays. But then, on Friday, I go all the time. They -- Tanya -- so, I go every week, on Friday. I call him "rebitshke." He is, like, thirty-three years old, from South Africa. Oh, he is wonderful. So, sometimes -- it's interesting, but he knows Hebrew, he reads and everything, but just a few words in Yiddish. So, when he says something, he always asking me what it is, like Yiddish. So, I remember quite a few things. I cannot read, of course, sometime -- nothing. But he asking me, and I go there Fridays -- Tanya. Wednesdays, these classes, JLI, Jewish Learning Institute. And I love it. I just go there and learn something at 57:00least about religion, and not only religion. But it's nice. They have many different things. Sometimes, they invite us for holidays, and we go and -- oh, wonderful.

AI:I just want to ask you before we will come back to Chabad Lubavitch in Stamford topic. But I would like to know: why did you leave Russia in 1980? How it came up?

IS:Oh, I was very much against Soviet power, especially -- they killed my father. I absolutely did not remember, even, him. And I always was, like, communists, Soviets, I was -- and then, my husband did not want to leave Russia. 58:00Maybe he was scared of -- we did not have anybody here. We did not know anybody. Our English was just very low level. In school, I had English language teacher who was from America. And it was also funny, because her husband also was a communist, probably. So, after the revolution, he took his wife and everything. They came to build socialism in Russia. When they came, the Russians arrested him. Sent to Siberia. The family never saw him again. He had two sons and a wife. Her name was Mary -- Mary Salamonovna. They did not see him at all. So, 59:00she was my English teacher. So, we knew a little bit of English. Just few words. And I wanted -- I wanted to leave Russia. I did not like all this, because they killed my father and I knew a lot of things about all this -- communists and everything. And my mother was also persecuted -- not like to the extent of prison or something, but to lose one job, to find another job, and it was not easy, you know? So, I wanted to leave, and I -- first, I wanted to go to Israel, actually. Yeah. But my husband did not want to. He said to me, "You never lived among all Jews. You don't know what it means." What can I say? I really wanted 60:00to go to Israel, because I had many relatives there. My uncle, my aunt, they lived in Israel -- they left -- and cousins, and and I wanted to go there. My husband says no. And then, we came to -- what, Vienna? No, on our way from Russia, in Europe, the stop was -- I don't remember which -- and we weren't there -- we spent there probably a week before the American government gave us permission to come. So, when we were there, first day or second day, all these people who came congregated in some -- I don't know, what was -- a big hall or 61:00something. And we were waiting for the person from Israel to come and talk to us, and something -- I don't remember what. And we were waiting there with kids and old people who were -- more than half a day, with no food, with no water. It was horrible. Finally, man comes who is Israeli, and he was saying, "If you don't go to Israel, you could be killed on any corner, because you're nobody. You have no citizenship, and you nothing, you nothing. You have to go to Israel." And when -- first of all, we were waiting for him, and old people, you know, and kids -- it was horrible. So then, my husband went to him and wanted to 62:00hit him. It is -- "What did you do? How?" And this was -- my husband said, "See? I was right. Look who is in Israel. Look how he made suffer all this" -- it was more than hundred people there. He said, "Look, what is it?" So, I said, "Okay." So, we're waiting a little bit. I don't know, week or something. And Americans send us to Kansas City, Missouri. The Jewish community of Kansas City accepted my family. So, we went there, and they met us -- volunteers and everything. And they gave us a one-bedroom apartment, and even TV they gave us, and everything -- and, oh, it was unbelievably good. Everything was perfect. We -- to Jewish community center, we were going, and this and -- started the English lessons 63:00classes and everything. And I don't remember how long we were there and looking for a job. They gave us resumes, made everything beautiful. And we met very good people there: Americans, Jewish Americans. They helped us lot. It was so good. And finally, my husband found a job here in Connecticut, in Bridgeport or something. So, we moved here and we had some friends, family here in Stamford. But my husband found room or apartment in Seymour. So, we moved to Seymour, and I did not like it at all. What's this? But, anyway, we lived a little bit there, then I found a job and everything. And it's perfect. Oh, my God, I think that 64:00every American should be so devoted to America like I am. I love this country. It's so beautiful. And I go on the streets, and I don't know what I like better: summer or spring, when all these flowers, all these trees, all this -- oh my God, it's so good. And then, I love New York. We go -- I subscribe for the opera and ballet. We go to Metropolitan Opera. Oh, wow. Life is beautiful, is amazing. And I found, also, a job in the Environmental Protection Agency. I don't believe 65:00in global warming, but my job was -- I was inspecting big plants for them not to exhaust dirty air, which is, of course, not only because of the global warming, which I don't believe in, but clean air should be. So, I was inspecting and doing all this work, and I loved it, and it was very nice and good. And my husband has a good job. And then, we retired. And, oh, everything -- and my older daughter in Kansas City, right away she met a boy who -- supposed to be a Muslim, and they married. And now, there's grandchildren -- oh, life if beautiful, even at my age.

AI:I would like to ask you now more about Yiddish and Yiddishkayt in Eastern Europe, European Jewish culture in America. How does your connection to Yiddish, Yiddishkayt, and Eastern European Jewish heritage fit into your broader sense of Jewish identity?

IS:I don't see, in Stamford -- even though I go to the Jewish community center -- but I don't go often. Sometimes. And one connection is this -- like I said, this Lubavitche synagogue, which I love them, all of them. It's so good, they're so friendly, they're so nice. They don't speak Yiddish, of course, and Hebrew I don't know. But we're invited to the holidays and this and that, and I just like 67:00it very much. I don't see any more Jewish friends. From Russia, a few, but now everybody's old and sick, so (laughs) it's not too many. But what I enjoy is Yiddish songs. I bought an old -- they call "patifon," and we -- even from Russia, we brought plastinke, records. And I put this music -- when I home, especially by myself, I love it. There's "Fiddler on the Roof," this music and songs and everything. I have quite a few. So, this, I enjoy so much. But around, we're -- don't hear the Yiddish. Even when we go to synagogue -- like I said, I 68:00go to this Lubavitche -- they speak only English. Oh, sometimes when the High Holiday, they read a little bit of Torah. But this is Hebrew, not Yiddish, which I miss. So, I put my records and Yiddish songs, and I enjoy it very much.

AI:Do you have any favorite song?

IS:Like I said, from the "Fiddler on the Roof" and "Yidishe mame [Jewish mother]," some other songs which I cannot sing myself, but I enjoy it very much.

AI:That's wonderful. How, if at all, has language influenced your sense of identity? And that's in terms of your Jewish identity.

IS:Just in my heart. When I hear the Yiddish language, I feel good. I feel that I belong. But I don't hear it too much. Where? But this is in me. I just love it because of my grandmother. She was so nice person. And, of course, my mother, she died when she was close to sixty. Young. And here, I don't hear Yiddish. No. But I just like it.

AI:What is your connection to Israel?

IS:Oh.

AI:And what is your attitude towards Israel?

IS:All these years, we've never been to Israel, because it's a lot of money. We 70:00actually don't have it. But, in Israel, my uncle buried there. My aunt. Few of my cousins -- they already dead -- there. And my husband's father. And all the time, I said, "Let's go to Israel. Let's go." And always, it's a matter of money somehow. But I would love to be there. Not to live, but to go to see all this. And many times, when I go to this Lubavitche, they tell about Jerusalem, they tell about many things which we enjoy and that's all.

AI:Okay, so I have -- before we would close, I would like to ask is there any 71:00story what you would like to tell? Maybe something we missed, something from your life?

IS:No, I just wrote about my life during the World War II. I wrote -- I don't know how many pages. But I would like, of course, somebody to publish, but it's almost impossible. You have to know somebody, so, I have it, but that's what it is. Nothing. I would like to continue working on it and publish it and all these things, which I told you. It's in there. But I don't know if I will be able to, because you have to know where to go and how to do it, and -- but it's okay. And 72:00I also happy for my daughters. Here, they have very good life. And one daughter still lives in Nashville, Tennessee. So, they -- and good husband and son who lives in here. The poet. And everybody's very happy. And my granddaughter, she's twenty-two. She wants to be a pediatrician. So, she's very good student and she graduated, and now she wants to -- doctor's degree. I don't know exactly where. She lives in Chattanooga, Tennessee. And everybody's very happy. And I and my 73:00husband, for fifty-something years, we together. And I convinced him to leave Russia. I was fighting with him, fighting, finally he agree. And now, he's happy. Now I wanted to go to visit Minsk at least for few days, for a week. I have two cousins there, and -- just to see what my childhood was, he says, "No, no, no." He doesn't want even to think about this Soviet Union. "No way." So, America, America!

AI:We are nearing to the end of our time, but I would like to ask you: would you 74:00consider yourself today as a religious person?

IS:That's what my husband and my daughters consider me, because before, we did not know anything about religion. But now, even because I go to this Lubavitche twice a week, they think that it's too much, it's too much. I don't think, myself, as religious. But I like to know more about this, and to participate, and that's why I go to them, and I like it. Of course, my knowledge is not so good and so big, for religious person. But I really enjoy it, and I like to know more. And I do it.

AI:To close, I would like to ask you: what is your favorite Yiddish word, 75:00phrase, or song?

IS:See, now, I became old and my memory is so bad. I like music from the "Fiddler on the Roof." I cannot sing, but that's what I like, when I hear. And you said words. The favorite word is "shlimazl." (laughs) That's what I call my husband. (laughs) That's all -- (laughs) "shlimazl." And he is not angry I call him -- it's good. Or "mazl-tov [congratulations]," when some good things or holiday -- mazl-tov. I don't remember too much, but if somebody said, I understand. So, that's what --

AI:And about the Yiddish songs, you said that you like the music from "Yidl mitn fidl [Yidl and her fiddle]," for example, and many others. And what do you like about it? Why is this important to you?

IS:It's probably in my heart, and I think that this is me, and I like it, that's why. Because yidishe, yidishe yidishe, yidishe mame, yidishe [Jewish, Jewish, Jewish, Jewish mother, Jewish] -- but my two daughters, they kind of -- no. I cannot convince them, because they were not growing up with my grandmother, my mother. They don't know any. But for me, it's my childhood, my -- so, that's what I like. And all this sounds very nice, very kind of -- not, like, "Oh, oh, 77:00oh!" No, everything is very slow and very good when I hear this, because yidishe people, they very good people. They don't be angry -- to me, it's kind of very nice when I hear this. Like I said, "shlimazl" looks to me good. Shlimazl, shlemiel, so what? All these letters sound very nicely.

AI:My last question to you is what advice do you have for future generations?

IS:I wish they were more involved in learning Yiddish, religion, and language. 78:00But for some reason, they don't want to, because it's kind of hidden. It's nothing open -- nothing more -- even in the synagogue and everything, looks like everybody's forgetting the Yiddish. Some Hebrew, when you go to synagogue, they pray and everything. But Yiddish disappears, and I wish it would be longer, because it sounds very, very good to me, to my heart as kind of very nice. Yeah.

AI:Thank you very much for this interview.

IS:Thank you. I was very happy to be here.

[END OF INTERVIEW]