FLORENCE SCHUMACHER ORAL HISTORY

CHRISTA WHITNEY: This is Christa Whitney, and today is July 16th, 2010.  I am here at the Yiddish Book Center in Amherst, Massachusetts, with Florence Schumacher, and we're going to record an interview as part of the Yiddish Book Center's Wexler Oral History Project.  Florence, do I have your permission to record this interview?

FLORENCE SCHUMACHER: Yes.

CW:  Okay.  Thank you.  So, maybe we could start with your family background.  What do you know about your family as far back as you can -- as you know?

FS:  Well, I actually can't go too far back with my family.  I know, of 1:00course, my parents, and growing up with them, but I never even knew any grandparents, because my parents were immigrants from Eastern Europe.  So, I'm a lot younger than most first-generation Jewish Americans, 'cause the immigration in the US was earlier than in Canada, and I grew up in Canada.  And so, my parents were both immigrants.  So, I was very close to that immigrant culture.  And as a result, I know the names of my grandparents, but I don't even have a lot of detail about them -- though I've tried, 'cause I have an interest in genealogy.  And in my husband's family, for example, on his maternal side, I've been able to trace his family back twenty generations, so that my grandson is the twentieth generation of that side of the family -- the 2:00Brod family.  But on my family, I don't even know exactly when my grandparents were born or who all their siblings were.  So, it's very different.

CW:  Um-hm.  What have you found out?  Do you know when they came and --

FS:  Oh, yes.  I know, of course, a lot about my parents.  My father came to Winnipeg, Manitoba -- which is where I was born and grew up -- in 1926 from what was then Romania -- Dubossary, Romania -- today it's in Moldova, near Kishinev, which is the big city there.  He was twenty-one years old.  My mother came in 1929 from what was then a small town in Poland -- from Drohiczyn in Poland.  Again, I haven't been able to find many records about, you know, their 3:00parents.  I know something about my father's and mother's birth and experience, but not much beyond them.  So, I grew up in a very Yiddish-centered, immigrant, Jewish culture in Winnipeg.  My parents spoke Yiddish to each other, and so that's how I learned Yiddish growing up.  And all their friends spoke Yiddish, all my -- you know, family members -- their uncles and so forth -- spoke Yiddish.  But they spoke English to us, and they learned English early on, though they never really mastered it (laughs) and they always had a strong accent.  So, everything was Yiddish.  And Winnipeg had about twenty thousand Jewish residents of a total population of about half a million people.  But it was a very close-knit Jewish community.  And that's where I grew up.  All my 4:00friends were Jewish, went to a lot of Jewish institutions.  Although I did not have a typical Jewish upbringing, even as an immigrant family, because my father was a socialist -- and really, a communist -- when he came from Russia.  And he had actually a very interesting background.  Do you want me to tell you about him?

CW:  Yeah.

FS:  So, he came to Winnipeg in 1926, twenty-one years old.  He was a yeshive-bokher [yeshiva student] -- he had that background, 'cause his father was a shochet [ritual slaughterer] and he came from a very religious background.  He came to Canada to be an itinerant Hebrew teacher among the farming families in southern Manitoba.  So, that's what he did after he first 5:00arrived.  He would go and he would travel from family to family and stay there.  Well, that didn't last very long.  He only did that for about a year.  And then, he came to Winnipeg, which was the big city there, where his brother and sister had immigrated before he did.  So, he lived with his sister -- well, first he lived with his brother, and then his sister came later and he then lived with his sister.  And the brother and sister were older and married and had children.  And he describes that he slept on a chair -- a bed chair -- in the kitchen of his sister's apartment.  So, there he was, you know, very 6:00imbued with the socialist ideals.  And the only job he could get -- I think of him as sort of an intellectual who couldn't really find work at that time -- this was now 1927, 1928, just before the Depression -- and so, he be-- there was a large garment industry in Winnipeg, and he became a presser in the shops.  Actually, my mother was a seamstress, so she was also working in the shops as a seamstress.  That was a very common job for immigrants.  And my father then was involved in unionizing the garment industry in Winnipeg -- which was a little bit later than had happened in the US, which was, I think, already unionized.  So, he -- my older cousins -- describe seeing my father giving speeches on street corners in Yiddish, you know, to the other immigrant Jews, 7:00that they should unionize.  And my mother went -- well, they were courting at that time, and my mother went with him to a rally -- a union rally.  And her boss had spies there, and she went back and lost her job the next day for having been there.  So, my father then was sort of, like, blacklisted (laughs) from the union shops.  And then, he and my mother eventually married.  By now, this was into the early 1930s.  They married in 1936.  And they did what a lot of immigrant Jews did: they opened a small grocery store.  There were -- on the corners of all these streets, there would be a small grocery store -- this was before the age of supermarkets.  And we lived behind the store -- in a four-bedroom apartment behind the store is where we grew up.  I shared a 8:00bedroom with my brother until I was nine and he was fourteen.  He was five years older than I was.  And so, that's where we lived.  And it was really a sort of -- inner-city, I guess, would be the way to describe it -- an inner-city location -- until we then moved into the suburbs at that time.  But in those early years, because of my father's communist leanings, he was active in what was called the Sholem Aleichem School.  And that was a socialist organization.  And that's where we went after school.  I was young enough that I don't really remember a whole lot about that, but I was speaking to my brother the other night and asked him about it.  And he said, Oh yes, he remembers 9:00going there till about the sixth grade and learning Yiddish and acting in plays of Sholem Aleichem where he was Tevye, you know.  And he definitely has memories of that.  And he says that my father was actually on the board of trustees or something like that at the school, and he remembers my father coming in to sort of observe what the teachers were doing.  And he said he did that until he was in the sixth grade -- so I would have only been, like, in the first grade, and that's why I really don't remember much about it.  But he said my father pulled him out in the sixth grade because it was around 1950 and it was the time of the Doctors' Plot in Russia, where Stalin thought that there were a group of Jewish doctors who were trying to assassinate him, so he killed all 10:00these Jewish doctors.  And that really affected my father -- the anti-Semitism of Stalin and especially that incident really made him lose his interest in communism.  And he, as I say, pulled my brother and me out of the Sholem Aleichem School.  So, there was always tension in my house, because my mother didn't really follow my father's beliefs.  And her family were not socialistic and they were much more Zionistic.  So, she didn't really approve of my father's activities, and so there was always that tension in the house.  And I think after that, my father kind of mellowed in his beliefs -- kind of went over to the more traditional and conventional beliefs of my mother and her family.

CW:  To Zionism or traditional religious --

FS:  Well, my father was not religious; he was areligious -- even though, as I say, he came initially as a Hebrew teacher and had been a yeshive-bokher in Romania.  But he did not believe in traditional Judaism.  In fact, when my brother was bar mitzvah -- which he was, again, because of my mother's influence -- my father didn't even attend, which was a big thing.  He was -- stood sort of outside in the hall until it was over, and then he went to the oneg afterwards.  And interestingly enough, his brother in Winnipeg -- who, of course, had the same training and background as he did -- was very religious and became very involved in Orthodox synagogues in Winnipeg and the, you know, whole 12:00Jewish community.  But my father did not.  So, it was interesting, 'cause I didn't really then have, like, a -- we didn't belong to a temple and I didn't go -- after we -- my father withdrew from the Sholem Aleichem Shule, I never went to any Jewish school.  But most kids in Winnipeg did -- I mean, most of my friends, for example, went to a Yiddish day school, the Peretz School.  And I spoke also just recently to a friend who did go to the Peretz School until the sixth grade.  She says that she thinks the Peretz School kind of took over from the Sholem Aleichem Shule after it declined, 'cause the Peretz School was also very socialistic, which is something I didn't know.  So, there were a lot of kids -- you know, went to the Peretz School.  And then, there was the Talmud Torah Day School.  So again, this was really very common in Winnipeg.

CW:  And what school did you go to?

FS:  I didn't go to a religious school.

CW:  Just a public school?  Or --

FS:  I went to -- yeah.  I just went to public schools.  And for a while, I had a private sort of tutor teaching me Yiddish, I guess.  But I wasn't bat mitzvah.  But interestingly -- sort of -- so I was kind of feeling a bit like an outsider, you know, especially 'cause my parents were immigrants.  And, you know, I think most of my friends' parents were maybe immigrants, too, or came with their parents when they were older, but I definitely felt like an outsider.  You know, I can remember when I was really young -- like, seven or eight -- and if I was absent from school and had to write a note to the teacher, my mother's English wasn't that good, so I would have to write the note to the 14:00teacher and my mother would sign it.  So, then her English did improve and she was able to write.  But I think because of that, once I got to be a little older and we moved to the suburbs when I was nine, in my, you know, junior high years, especially in high -- even into high school, I was part of all these Jewish organizations.  I went to the YMHA in Winnipeg -- there was a YM-- Young Men's Hebrew Association.  It was very big and active.  And I went there from about -- I used to take the bus there myself when I was, like, nine years old -- 'cause it was downtown, but you could do that in those days.  And I would swim there.  And I'm still a swimmer -- that's still my main sport, which -- I learned to swim at the YMHA.  And then, after that, there would be clubs, social clubs that we would go to.  And there would always be a program: some 15:00sort of dance or band or play.  And I remember there was a restaurant -- we used to have our dinner there, and for thirty-five cents you could have a hot dog special, or for forty-five cents you could have a hamburger special with French fries -- which, of course, in Canada, we always put vinegar on our French fries, not ketchup.  And then, we'd go to this play and then we'd all come home on the bus -- you know, maybe around eight o'clock or so.  So, that was when I was really younger.  And then, into junior high, still went to the Y to programs.  And then, there was the USY -- the United Synagogue Youth.  And even though once I lived in the suburbs my family didn't belong there, as many of my friends' families did, they used to have an active youth program, and I went to that and was really involved in that.  And then, I belonged to the B'nai Brith girls group and we would have programs and get-togethers with that.  And from a fairly early age -- well, at least from about ten, I think -- 16:00I went to a Jewish camp.  We went to the B'nai Brith camp.  They used to have these camps in Lake of the Woods, Ontario.  So, I went there every year, and I was even a junior counselor there when I was sixteen.  So, growing up, you know, with -- all my friends were Jewish; we went to all these Jewish organizations, and I had a very strong sense of being Jewish and only really knew Jewish people.  I mean, I'd know other kids at school, but outside of school, you know, all my contacts were Jewish, all my parents' friends were Jewish.

CW:  Can you -- sorry.

FS:  Go ahead.

CW:  Can -- what was it that felt Jewish?  You know, what were the values or things that were Jewish to you when you were growing up?

FS:  Well, of course, you know, celebrating all the holidays, Jewish -- I mean, 17:00in my home when I was young, even the newspapers were Jewish.  I mean, there were three Jewish -- there were two Yiddish newspapers in Winnipeg in this small population: the "Israelite Press" and the "Yiddishe Vort."  And then, my parents -- my father used to get a socialist Yiddish paper called the "Vochenblatt."  And the records they listened to were Yiddish.  My father loved cantorial music.  And those were the early 78s we used to play on our record player.  The values in my family certainly were education -- that was always a big one, 'cause my parents certainly didn't have a lot of education.  My father, as I say -- I guess as a yeshive-bokher, went through maybe high school; my mother only went to grade school.  But it was very important that my 18:00generation all go to college.  And we all did, starting with my oldest first cousin in the family, who became a physician -- a woman who became a physician.  And she kinda set the level for everyone.  Her brother became a physician; my brother became a physician; another one of my cousins became a pharmacist; and I became a healthcare administrator.  (laughs) So, we all went to college and graduate school, and that was considered sort of expected.  Family was a very strong value.  We had a very close family in Winnipeg.  My mother had two sisters there and their children, and my father had a sister and a brother, and we were very close to them.  Most of my mother's family had 19:00immigrated to the United States earlier.  She was caught right in that change of immigration, which I think was 1926, when they -- the US imposed -- I forget the name of the laws, but they required people to go on the quotas of the percentage of national --

CW:  Immigration Act?

FS:  Yes, maybe -- of 1926, I think it was.  So, my mother then would have had to go on the Polish quota, and it was very difficult to get in the US.  So, her older siblings -- 'cause she came from a very large family -- they all came to the United States.  And she and these other two sisters came to the United States.  And a brother -- two brothers went to Argentina -- 'cause, again, they couldn't come to the United States.  And she had -- one, two, three sisters, I guess -- who came to the United States.  But she never, ever intended to come 20:00to the United States, so we always, you know, had -- but she did come to the United States in 1962 to join her sisters, who were all then -- or most -- living in California -- after my father died.  So, she did come to the United States, and that's how I eventually got here.

CW:  Did they -- did your parents tell stories of the Old Country at all?

FS:  You know, they didn't talk about the Old Country very much at all.  And it was only very much later -- you know, maybe ten years ago, when I became interested in genealogy -- that I started to ask -- well, fortunately, my mother was still alive, so I would ask her about -- questions.  But my father was already dead.  But they talked -- they really didn't want to know about where 21:00they left.  My father still had family that was left in Romania.  And I do remember, when I was young, that they used to send all these packages of, you know, clothes and things to the family members who were still in Romania.  And those family members, from -- well, what is now Kishinev -- they lived in Kishinev -- all came to the United States in the big Russian immigration to the United States in the 1980s.  So then now, I have this whole group of first cousins who came from Russia in the 1980s.  And they, in fact, live in San Antonio, Texas.  Because we had lost contact with them after my father died -- he died young, in 1959.  So, we lost contact with them.  They didn't know that we had all moved to the United States.  So, when they came, they didn't -- 22:00couldn't contact us.  So, they were just assigned randomly by HIAS to San Antonio, Texas.  And then, after they were settling in then, there's an interesting story where they told someone in their temple who was involved with them that, Well, we had relatives in Canada; we haven't heard from them for a long time.  Could you help us find them?  And so, this person knew someone in Winnipeg -- this Noah Witman, who was the editor of the "Israelite Press" and a real celebrity in Winnipeg.  And so, this person called Noah Witman, and Noah Witman said, "Oh, the Steinbergs" -- that was my maiden name. "Yes, sure, I know the Steinbergs.  And they already moved to the United States, but there's one sister who still lives here, and her name is Beatrice Faiman and here you can 23:00reach her.  And sure enough, they called my aunt, Beatrice Faiman, who was the only one still left in Winnipeg.  And she, in turn, put them in touch with my mother, who put them in touch with my father's side of the family, the Steinbergs.  And that's how we got back in touch with them.  And we've seen them and we're in touch with them and they're doing great in San Antonio, Texas.

CW:  Wow.  Do they have stories of the interim period?

FS:  Yes, well, I -- again, as part of my genealogy interest, I have interviewed them and talked to them about their life in Kishinev.  And it's very interesting -- you know, especially during World War II, when they were left there.  And they told me that my father's sister and her family -- of whom 24:00the daughters are in San Antonio -- that they actually escaped to Siberia during the war.  And that's how they were saved, because they spent the war in Siberia.  And another one of my -- well, my uncle, who was there, Shmuel Shtaynberg, fought in the war.  And it was very risky for Jews to be in the Russian Army.  And a lot of Jews left -- immigrated when they were of age to go in the army in order to avoid it.  But he had to go in the army.  And the story that's always been told about him is that because he had a great sense of humor -- the Steinbergs have been known for their sense of humor -- he was able to get along well with the other Russians in the army, and he survived -- 25:00although he was badly injured and had a bullet to his lung and he suffered from pulmonary disease till the end of his life after that.  But his wife -- his first wife was killed in Kishinev during the war.  And, of course, my mother's family in Poland -- in this small shtetl [small Eastern European town with a Jewish community] in Poland between Brest and Pinsk -- were -- she had two sisters who were still living there.  And they -- their families were killed.  And the story -- one story has been told about how a couple of their children were hiding in a haystack from the Nazis, and when they came through the shtetl -- and they froze in the haystack.  And a lot of members of that family died 26:00when -- during, you know, one of the Nazi invasions of their shtetl.  They were the Hoyzman family -- or Hausman -- sometimes it's called the Hausman family.  And many members were killed -- when they were all rounded up and, you know, killed in the shtetl.  So fortunately, my family escaped long before that.  And some of my cousins -- the ones who went to Siberia -- were the ones who eventually have come here.  And my uncle -- the one who was in the army -- he came with his daughter in the 1980s, and we did get a chance to meet him and see him.  Unfortunately, he was already old and kind of demented by then.  But it 27:00was -- when -- it was my brother's son's bar mitzvah and we brought him to the bar mitzvah in -- on Long Island, and when we saw him, we both just almost fainted, 'cause he looked exactly like my father.  (cries)

CW:  Wow.  So, can you talk a little bit more about your father?  What do you remember?  Growing up, what was he like in the household?

FS:  You know, it's interesting.  He died when I was sixteen, and I don't have a tremendous number of memories about him, although what I do remember about him is that he and my mother had a very egalitarian relationship.  And because my moth-- he had -- we had this grocery store, and my mother worked with him in the grocery store, and she was very intelligent and confident and a real partner with him for that.  My father was not well.  And, you know, I do remember him 28:00being sick a lot.  And he ended up dying of heart disease, but he also had colon cancer.  So, he was not well.  And he used to always have to take a nap during the day, and that's -- my mother would go to the store and take over for him so he could come back and take a nap.  But the main thing I remember about him was, he had a great sense of humor and he was always joking.  And the Steinberg sense of humor, I guess, is most epitomized in my famous cousin, David Steinberg.  I don't know if you know him, but he was -- he did very well as a comedian.  And he started out in Second City revue -- that's -- he left Winnipeg -- he was actually supposed to be a yeshive-bokher, too, and he went to 29:00the yeshiva in Chicago, but instead of completing his yeshiva studies, he became part of Second City -- and was there, and then went on from there into California.  And he did a lot of standup comedy and was on the Johnny Carson Show a lot.  He was actually very well-known, I would say, in the '70s and '80s.  He never made it huge, you know -- he didn't really make it into movies.  But he did -- he was on television a lot with the -- oh, what's that group?  The something brother-- Smothers Brothers.  And when they had their famous conflict 'cause of what they said on the show -- I can't remember now what it was about, but anyway, my cousin David was involved, and I think their show was canceled after that.  (laughs) So anyway, that's just part of the Steinberg humor, which was well-known.

CW:  Can you give me an example of the Steinberg humor?

FS:  Well, in Winnipeg, it was very common when you had an event of any sort -- a bar mitzvah or wedding or anniversary party or whatever -- to give speeches.  People gave speeches, and there was an emcee.  And my father and his brother, Yankel -- my father was Israel and his brother was Yankel or Jack -- were famous emcees in their little group.  And they would apparently -- this was when I was quite young, so I don't remember it too clearly, but I've heard this story many times, how at these parties, they would go back and forth in Yiddish telling dirty jokes in Yiddish, one kind of outdoing the other.  So, they were kind of known for that.  And we saw that on a family basis at every seder, because, again, they had been so well-educated in Torah and all, so that on Passover, 31:00they would just rattle off the whole seder in Hebrew, and then the kids would get a nickel for every mistake that they would make.  So, those kids who could follow in Hebrew (laughs) -- and I couldn't, but my cousins could, and they would catch them and get a nickel for every mistake they would make.  That's how well-versed they were.

CW:  (laughs) Wow.  What do you remember about Yiddish?  Or how was Yiddish a part of your life -- you know, in your childhood and since then?

FS:  Well, as I say, my parents spoke Yiddish, so it was a part of my life from the beginning.  And I grew up bilingual in that sense.  And then, you know, we had the Yiddish school.  I would say my experience of it most was to try to 32:00escape it, (laughs) because I wanted my parents to speak English, you know?  I didn't -- you know, growing up, you want to be part of everything around you, and my parents always spoke Yiddish.  Although to me, they would often speak English, but they would speak Yiddish to me, 'cause I did understand it.  You know, there were Yiddish plays; there were Yiddish concerts.  And I guess because that was so much of my youth -- although at the time I tried to escape it -- I still love Yiddish and I still go to a lot of Yiddish concerts when I can find them.  And I was very interested in this National Yiddish Book Center when it was started.  But there was a period in my life, I have to say, when I totally tried to escape that.  And so, when I went to college and away from this very strongly Jewish bubble that I grew up in in Winnipeg, I went to 33:00UCLA.  So, I came to the United States.  That's when I came to the United States in 1960 -- to go to college.  And the reason was 'cause my mother was moving to the United States, too, after my father died.  But I came a few years earlier, 'cause I was just starting college.  And it was the first time that I was actually involved with a non-Yiddish-based (laughs) group.  And I -- you know, was just kind of amazed by it.  And I just really dove into it.  And, you know, I dated this Iranian guy and I dated this black guy -- I mean, I just never really had exposure to people like that before.  I lived in a dorm at UCLA.  And I did not join a Jewish sorority -- you know, I just lived at the dorm.  I didn't really identify with any Jewish groups.  I didn't seek out the 34:00Hillel on campus or anything like that.  So, I was actually just glad to be free of all of that.  So, there was about a twenty-year period, I would say -- you know, from the time I started college until I was married and had kids, where I really -- although -- I mean, I still certainly had my Jewish identity.  And as it turned out, most of the friends I made and were close to and still I'm in touch with were Jewish.  And my family -- I did have family in Los Angeles and all.  But I didn't, as I say, seek out those Jewish organizations until I was married and had kids and we were settled in the suburbs of Boston.

CW:  So, what made you return to it?

FS:  Well, I guess when my kids were growing up is when we finally -- when we moved to Boston.  My sons were seven and nine at the time, and I wanted them to 35:00have some Jewish education.  And so -- and we actually had belonged to a temple in Detroit, but it was a Humanist temple -- the Birmingham Temple in Detroit with Sherwin Wine -- it was a Humanist temple, which was kind of an interesting experiment.  But when we came to Boston, I realized that I really wanted to go back to something more traditional, and we joined a Reform temple in Needham, Massachusetts, the Temple Beth Shalom.  And we're still members of that, thirty-two years later.  So, in the end, I definitely came back to my Jewish roots.

CW:  So, what is -- well, first of all, can you tell me about this Humanist temple (laughs) and what that was like?

FS:  Well, it was a spinoff of a Reform temple in Detroit.  Sherwin Wine was a young rabbi who, with a group of members from this temple, decided that they 36:00wanted to do something a little different.  And he was, I think, the founder of this Humanist movement -- which still exists today.  It's never grown to be huge, but there are Humanist temples around in other places.  And they believed in Judaism without God, if you could ever do that.  So, they regarded the Torah as, you know, a wonderful book, but not divinely inspired -- of the prophets as, you know, great wisdom, but again, not divinely inspired.  So, we would have services.  And they would be on different Jewish themes -- of love, family, education, whatever.  And it was kind of an intellectual group.  They would 37:00always be talking about different events -- around -- political events, cultural events.  And kids were bar mitzvahed, but for their bar mitzvah, they would have to do basically like a term paper -- you know, some research paper, which they would -- on a Jewish theme or value -- and present that at a service.  So, that was -- and, you know, there was music associated with it.  I think they did have some sort of, like, school for kids.  But my kids were still really young, so they didn't go to that.  But I was involved with it.  It was in the '70s; it was the beginning of the women's movement, which I was very involved with.  I used to -- I was the editor of their newsletter, and we would write about women's lib-related things -- books and interviews, and had some programs 38:00on that.  Yeah.  And it still exists, and it's got quite a following.  In fact, they recently have played an interesting role in -- Sherwin Wine trained a group of lay leaders who were also justices of the peace, and they would go around and they would do interfaith weddings when a lot of rabbis would not do that.  And we ended up once at a wedding in Toledo, Ohio, and there -- someone came out from Detroit, from the Birmingham Temple, to perform the ceremony.

CW:  Wow.  Can you talk a little bit about how you got involved in all of these organizations when you were a kid?  Was it of your own, you know, independent interests, or was it your mother that got you involved?  Or --

FS:  No, my mother did not get me involved.  It was definitely on my own.  I mean, you know, the kids I was friendly with -- they must have somehow had the links to, like, the temple with the USY.  And it was just really through my friends that I would do it -- again, just, you know, wanting to be part of the community around me.  But that's how I did it -- was through my friends.  And it was the main social outlet for all the kids I knew that I was -- with whom I was growing up.

CW:  Yeah.  Were -- sometimes when -- you know, when I think about doing these interviews, I'm curious about how historic events may have been important in your life.  Were there specific historic events that were significant?

FS:  Related to Yiddish and Jewishness?

CW:  Sure.

FS:  Well, one thing I remember very strongly was the founding of the state of Israel.  That was in 1948; I was only five years old, so it's not that I remember the actual event that much, but I remember the strong support for Israel as I was growing up -- like, some cousins of mine were very involved with Habonim and went to Habonim camps.  I think my brother might have gone to a Habonim camp.  I don't think girls went, so I never went to that -- I went, as I said, to B'nai Brith camp, which wasn't particularly Zionistic.  But that was important.  One of my oldest cousins, the woman who became a doctor, who got married in 1950 -- so that was right after the founding -- she and her husband 41:00went to Israel on their honeymoon.  And she has described how primitive, of course, it was then.  But they actually went there.  And there was just -- my mother belonged to something called the Pioneer Women -- the Chana Senesh group of the Pioneer Women.  And they used to have teas; tea was very important in Canada, and they would have teas to raise money for Israel and, you know, they would bring pastries and pour tea.  And they used to -- that was a very common fundraising thing for Israel.  So, I would say that's the major thing.  And then, of course, you know, the remnants of World War II, which also was about the same period, and the relatives I had in Europe -- in Poland and Russia -- who were killed.  And even -- I had two first cousins in Winnipeg who were killed during the war.  One was in the Canadian Air Force and the other was in 42:00the army.  They were first cousins, one on my mother's side and one on my father's side.  So, the remnants of World War II were definitely felt as I was growing up.

CW:  Was it -- how was the war talked about in your community or family?

FS:  Well, you know, it was a very sad thing, because on both sides, my father and my mother lost their siblings in the war, and their nieces and their nephews.  And there were even -- I can remember a number of my mother's friends who came from Europe after the war, whereas most of my family, fortunately, came before the war.  There were a few who came after the war and talked about their 43:00experiences in the war -- hiding out in the forests with the resistance.  And they came -- I can remember this one couple who had just married.  They had met in one of the displaced persons camps, 'cause they had both lost their families.  And they married there and they came.  And they became part of my parents' little social network.  So, there was talk about that.  And, you know, the sadness.  Oh, there was another couple that I think about now, too -- another family who came and -- you know, it was definitely part of their culture.

CW:  Yeah.  What does Yiddish mean to you today?

FS:  Well, Yiddish -- of course, it brings a lot of nostalgia for me, because 44:00it reminds me of my parents and my whole family and my growing up in that Yiddish culture.  I don't think I appreciated then, as I do now, the richness of Yiddish culture.  And, you know, my father was very well-read in Sholem Aleichem and all of the Yiddish authors.  I wasn't really exposed to them very much in my youth, and it was only as I grew up and 'cause of my orientation to Yiddish that I started to read the Yiddish authors a little and go to plays about Yiddish.  And definitely, any time there's something about Yiddish, it attracts me as something that I want to know about.

CW:  Where do you see the future of Yiddish?  Do you have any --

FS:  Well, I mean, I think Yiddish was very close to dying out before the 45:00renaissance that seems to be occurring with places like the National Yiddish Book Center.  And -- you know, I hear about friends whose kids are actually majoring in Jewish Studies at college.  And so, I think that it will survive -- it won't die out.  But it certainly is, you know, not a major thing.  My kids don't know anything about Yiddish, except a few Yiddish expressions here or there.

CW:  And since you mentioned your kids -- have there been Jewish values that you've tried to pass on to them?  Or certain --

FS:  Yes, well, definitely.  I mean, I married someone who was Jewish -- I mean, it was sort of beyond imagination in my generation that you would not marry someone who was Jewish -- and we have definitely had a Jewish household, 46:00but it's been much more of a modern Jewish household.  And we belong to a temple.  And our kids were both -- my sons were both bar mitzvahed -- went to, you know, religious school.  We celebrate all the Jewish holidays.  But of course, the orientation is more to Hebrew now.  They didn't learn Yiddish when they went to Hebrew school, they learned Hebrew.  And they know a little Hebrew, enough to -- you know, for a service in a Reform temple (laughs) or to get through some of the Jewish holidays.  So, Yiddish is really not part of their culture.  I mean, Jewish -- Judaic values are, but I wouldn't say Yiddish, you know, specifically.  But I mean, they, I think, have a strong value for education, a strong value for family.  We're very close.  And they live in Boston, near where we do.  And I think they have a strong sense of 47:00social consciousness.  My one son is an assistant US attorney in Boston, and left a really high-paying job at a Boston large law firm to take this job, which is a job he'd always wanted and was happy to get.  So, I think that shows his strong interest in social values.  So, I don't know that I would call that Yiddish, but they certainly have for a respect for it.  And this one son -- he went to a Jewish camp, Camp Bauercrest, for his whole childhood.  He even was a counselor there.  He never held a job until after he graduated from college, 'cause he always went to camp.  And he went to Israel when he was sixteen.  48:00So, he had those strong Jewish experiences.  But interestingly, he married an Irish Catholic.  So -- and my other son, who didn't do any of that -- he didn't go to the camp -- after one year, he didn't like it, so he didn't go, and he didn't go to Israel, and he was always one who never really dated anyone who was Jewish, but he's getting married in October to a Jewish woman from Newton.  So, you just can't predict these things.

CW:  Yeah.  Well, we've touched on a lot of different things.  I'm wondering if there are specific stories that you wanted to make sure to get in here before we --

FS:  Well, talking about my adult life after we moved to the Boston area -- we moved to Needham, Massachusetts, and I must say, we did not experience any 49:00outright anti-Semitic behavior from anyone, and we just were able to buy a house anywhere in Needham that we wanted to.  But right after we moved in and we were having the house painted -- I think that we maybe hadn't even moved in yet -- it was interesting -- we always still talk about this comment the painter made to us as we were chatting with him while he was working.  And he referred to "people of your faith."  And we felt like, Well, how does he know what our faith is?  We've never talked about this with him.  But he obviously made the assumption -- somehow -- that we were Jewish, and it was that, you know, attitude.  And what we've heard -- and the temple I belong to, Temple Beth Shalom, celebrated its fiftieth anniversary in 2005, and I actually wrote the 50:00history of the temple and did a video.  So, I interviewed a lot of the founding members who are still around, and they told me that in Needham in the mid-'50s, when they first came, that they were -- Jews were not welcomed in Needham, and they were all kind of put, you know, in this one section of Needham, where -- it turned out to be all the Jews who lived in Needham lived in this, like, one little ghetto in Needham, because the realtors all sent -- you know, focused their purchases there.  That wasn't true in 1978, by the time we came, but there are still those Jews who are living in that one area, which is close to where the temple was.  And they formed the temple, you know, kind of to -- more for a sense of community, I think, than religious.  When I interviewed them, they didn't talk a lot about the religious need for the temple, but more the 51:00wanting a place where the Jewish people in Needham could come together.  And now we live in Wellesley -- we sold our house and now have a condo in Wellesley.  And we've talked to people -- faculty members at the university where my husband worked -- who tell us that in the '50s, they could not even buy a house in Wellesley.  So, there was a lot of anti-Semitism, even in this area in the '50s, but by the '70s, when we came, we didn't experience that.

CW:  Yeah.  Has -- you said you've rejoined a temple.  Was religion sort of a focus of your life?  Or -- you said you went to the Yiddish plays whenever you could.  I mean, what is -- how was your Jewishness expressed in your adult 52:00life, I guess?

FS:  I would say by belonging to a temple and going to services periodically.  And certainly, on the High Holidays, my family always joins us and we go to temple together.  And we celebrate all the holidays together.  And I certainly am the -- Jewish focus in the family, 'cause my husband grew up with more of a typically American upbringing, and he doesn't have the strong Jewish identification that I do.  He kind of goes along with it all, but if I didn't do it, I don't think he would.  So, I am definitely the Jewish focus and the one who everyone looks to for the holiday celebrations and all.  So, that is, I would say, how I really experience it now -- mainly -- on a day-to-day basis.  53:00And as it turns out, most of our friends are Jewish.  I mean, we have, certainly, some good friends who are not, but most of our friends are Jewish.  I met them through the temple, or somehow, you know, we found each other in Needham (laughs) through the kids.  And the kids' friends were mostly Jewish, too -- again, I think that -- who they met through the temple when they -- we first came.  Although my kids didn't really have a strong identification -- like, they didn't join Hillel when they went to college, although I think they were in -- one was in a Jewish fraternity.  But their experience of it was, I would say, not really Yiddish -- Jewish-centered.

CW:  Yeah.  Do you have advice for -- or a message for young Jews today -- 54:00about, you know -- just -- since we're doing this interview, I'm just curious if you have a message or advice that you would like to share?

FS:  Well, I'm very pleased to know that there are places like the National Yiddish Book Center who are trying to establish and preserve Jewish culture -- Yiddish culture, Yiddish books -- and continue to, you know, have programs to make people aware of it -- of the culture.  And, you know, I think it's interesting that what we seem to see today is the two extremes.  I mean, you have, you know, most Jews, who, I guess, like us, are Reform and, you know, Judaism isn't a big part of our everyday life, and then you have this extreme 55:00number of Orthodox Jews.  And I have one part of my family -- one of my cousins -- and his four kids and now his twenty-two grandchildren are all Orthodox.  And, you know, that is a big part of their life.  And I suppose maybe the Orthodox community is going to be the group that really maintains the strong Jewish traditions.  But there is that dichotomy, I think, today, and even tension.  I mean, it creates -- certainly creates tensions, even within the family -- you know, when you try to interact with Orthodox Jews and you're not Orthodox.  But on the other hand, I'm glad that they're there, because I think they will help to maintain the Jewish culture.  And I think the Jewish values are as relevant today as they ever were, and hopefully continue to drive not 56:00just Jewish families, but all families, because the values are so important.

CW:  Wonderful.  I have one last sort of silly question: I'm wondering if you have a favorite Yiddish word or expression.

FS:  That's a good one.  I guess, you know, something that I use -- I say "oy vey" (laughs) -- or "oy" is something I guess I'll say a lot.  Oh gosh.  I can't really think about that one.  But I see a lot of Yiddish expressions that come into the main language.  And I just saw one that was part of a headline in the "New York Times."  What was it?  Was it some-- "shtik [theatrical 57:00routine]," maybe?  But you'll see that.  And you know, so I think Yiddish lives on in some small ways, certainly.

CW:  Great.  Anything else you'd like to share?

FS:  I don't think so.  I think I've covered most of the things I was going to mention.  Well, one thing I would say, you know, which is interesting, is I am still in touch with some of my friends from Winnipeg.  And what strikes me is that there is still that stronger Yiddish and Jewish culture in Winnipeg than there is here in the United States.  And -- for example, you know, I know some of my friends still send their kids to a big Jewish day school that -- the ones 58:00that were there when I was growing up have all kind of merged, and there's this big, new campus -- the Rady Campus -- that they have established in Winnipeg, and there's a big Gray Jewish day school that goes from grades pre-kindergarten to twelfth grade -- and that one of my close friends teaches there.  And I was just talking to her the other night about her experience there, and, you know, they call her Morah [Hebrew: Teacher] Ethel, and she's taught kindergarten there for many years, and it's a very close-knit and vibrant community.  And they have a lot of programs and things that really keep, you know, Yiddish and Jewishness alive there.  I have a sense that it's much stronger than here, even though there are some Jewish community centers and other organizations here that do that.

CW:  Do you have any theories about why that might be?

FS:  Well, I think the Jews in Canada have continued to stay very close in 59:00their sort of ghetto, you know, mentality, and I think they still mostly live in neighborhoods that are mostly Jewish.  Canada is much more segregated according to nationality.  You know, there's always been this major conflict in Canada, from its beginnings, of the French and the English, and I think that has led to ethnic groups continuing to stay very close together, whereas here in the United States, we've just had this huge assimilation.  That's what the United States is based on -- is assimilation.  And I think Jews have very much wanted -- and have -- assimilated as much as any other ethnic group, and much more so than in Canada.

[END OF INTERVIEW]