SHERWIN KAUFMAN ORAL HISTORY

CHRISTA WHITNEY:This is Christa Whitney, and today is April 1st, 2014. I am here in New York City with Sherwin Kaufman, and we're going to record an interview as part of the Yiddish Book Center's Wexler Oral History Project. Do I have your permission to record?

SHERWIN KAUFMAN:Yes.

CW:Thank you. So I will ask you a couple of very basic questions to start. Can you tell me your grandfather's name and where and when he was born, if you know?

SK:My grandfather's name was Sholem Rabinovitsh. He was born in Pereyaslav. I 1:00don't recall the year.

CW:Eighteen fifty-nine. And do you know anything about his childhood?

SK:Only what I have read or heard -- and not personal, but -- I understand that he had a difficult stepmother, and that his first story was a list of her curses when he was about fourteen. That's about all I know of his childhood.

CW:And do you know anything about his family or siblings?

SK:No.

CW:And can you tell me where and when you were born?

SK:I was born in Odessa, Russia, in 1920.

CW:And I know you were very young -- do you have any memories of Russia before you left?

SK:I left at the age of two, so I don't have memories.

CW:And why did your family come to America?

SK:My family lived through much of the Russian Revolution -- Bolshevik -- and wanted to get a new home in America, like so many others.

CW:Can you describe the atmosphere of your home growing up in New York -- or Newark, right?

SK:In Newark. It was very peaceful. And I had to learn two languages -- no, one language -- English -- the same as any other child would. And we kept Russian, of course, because that was the only language we spoke at home. My father was a doctor -- general practitioner. And those were not easy times -- talking about the Great Depression, starting when I was about ten years old. That's about the important things -- I don't recall much about home life as much as I do about school life.

CW:Do you have any memories of the Depression -- visual memories of that time?

SK:I only know that I was sent to camp -- summer camp -- every year from about 4:00age nine to fifteen or so. A couple of times, my father became the camp doctor, which meant we saved money by their not charging anything for my thing. I don't recall much else about the Depression.

CW:Was music a part of your home growing up?

SK:It was, from the very beginning. My sister Bel tells a weird story, which I cannot believe is true. She says that as the age of two, as we boarded the ship to come to America, I started to cry. And when asked why -- in Russian -- I said, "The orchestra is not playing in tune." But I can't believe it, and I 5:00think she just does it to humor me. But anyway, when I was four or five, I began taking piano lessons. At age eleven, I won a gold medal in a statewide -- New Jersey -- music contest competition -- in my age group, of course. And at that point, I kept up the music and decided to go to a -- not to make it my life work, but I thought of it as possibly going into music for life. That didn't happen unt-- oh, yes. In high school. I was salutatorian, and my principal 6:00recommended me and two other boys from different high schools for a full scholarship at Columbia -- just the three of us. One of the others decided to go to Princeton. The second of the others decided to go to Yale. And they withdrew the scholarship when it was just me left. That was my first experience with anti-Semitism. And my principal told me that he would never recommend anyone for that scholarship again. I did enter Columbia. And I got a half scholarship -- I think that they were a little sorry about that incident. And I was a music major 7:00for two of my three years at Columbia. The third year, I got a bunch of pre-med things. And after three years, I went to Cornell Medical College. During Columbia, I was not only the accompanist of the glee club, but the director put me on on their programs as a soloist -- which meant that in the middle of a glee club concert, I would be alone on stage. I had to play for the whole audience. That terrified me. But I did it. And I continued with music, even at Cornell Medical College, by playing humorous things on varsity shows -- to detract from 8:00the rigorous studies -- such as playing the Cornell alma mater in the style of great composers. I have to say, just, music has never left my life -- it's been with me. There's a long history of many things that I did with music -- chamber music, other things. And I continue because the piano is still here. And while my fingers are not the way they were when they were young, I still enjoy playing.

CW:When you were growing up, what kind of music did you hear in your home?

SK:Nobody in our family had any particular interest in classical music. And I 9:00was the only one. That's why I realized, when my mother said she knew where I got that from -- Sholem Aleichem, her father -- I could agree, because I knew of no one else who had that particular interest. There was no music heard except what I would play, which would be mostly classical music.

CW:And so your grandfather was a fan of music?

SK:He loved music. He wrote lyrics for many songs, including the famous lullaby, "Shlof, mayn kind [Sleep, my child]." And by the way, speaking of that lullaby, there's an old saying, How do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice. Well, I got to Carnegie Recital Hall -- near -- and I get on stage as arranger and accompanist 10:00for a very good, talented actress and singer, Eleanor Reissa. She sang "Shlof, mayn kind," and I accompanied her. So --

CW:How did that come about?

SK:Well, that came about because there was a special evening devoted to the memory of Sholem Aleichem with various classical pieces, and this put in as an extra. And that was how it came about.

CW:Can you tell me a little bit about your grandmother -- Sholem Aleichem's widow?

SK:Yes. I knew my grandmother from an early age. And when I was very young, I could count on her for hugs and pocket change. I knew her for a number of years. I knew that she was very heavy -- not an easy physical life. And I remember her vividly, as far as her face. And actually, I have movies of her -- home movies -- of her and my family. I was given a movie camera at the age of twelve, so from that point on -- I knew her before.

CW:What did she look like?

SK:She had gray hair. Her picture is over there next to my grandfather's bust 12:00there. You can see that she was pretty. And she smiled a lot.

CW:Was she involved in the posthumous work of your grandfather?

SK:She was involved, in the sense that she tried very hard to get his theatrical things going in New York and anything that could be translated or published and so on. That I remember, but I don't recall any details about that. So I just remember her as a grandmother.

CW:And did she live also somewhere in the New York area?

SK:Yes. In Brooklyn.

CW:Do you remember when you first read Sholem Aleichem -- like, actually on your own?

SK:It must have been in English. I think the first book that came out of his translations was called "The Old Country," and that must be the first time I read his stories in English. Thereafter, there were many other short story books translated, and I read them, too. But that was the first one.

CW:What was and is your opinion of his writing?

SK:It was very human, very poignant. At the same time, funny. And there rarely was any incident that was sad to the point of mourning -- but only sad as people 14:00do live, with a humorous side to it. That's all I remember.

CW:Were there any memorable stories about him that were passed down to you?

SK:Well, each year when we have the memorial of his yortsayt [anniversary of death], stories are read -- different ones. This is the ninety-eight year after his death. So at each yortsayt, I hear three or four stories and other comments. So I have a memory of hundreds of stories. But if you ask me what one comes to 15:00mind, I would say there's one called "Restaurants," where someone comes in who's very, very hungry to a restaurant and asks for something. And they say, Well, we're out of that. How about this? Yeah. Well, we don't really have that, either. And so on and so on until he says, "Give me anything, anything! I'm starving!" And it goes on like that. The funniest one I can think of is about the three funerals -- a story called "In America." First-class funeral, a thousand dollars. Beautiful weather, and horses with the carriage -- with plumes -- and children singing happy songs. Five hundred dollars is a second-class funeral -- it's about five hundred dollars. The weather is so-so, the horses 16:00don't have plumes, and the children are singing, but not so very interestingly. The third funeral is a hundred dollars. It's raining terrible rain, maybe one horse, and a very, very, bad day. And if you don't even have a hundred dollars, the deceased is taken by each arm and shlepped to the cemetery. And that one is read often. And it's not to forget.

CW:Yeah. Were there any aspects of Jewish culture that are memorable to you from 17:00your home growing up?

SK:My father knew Yiddish and had a Yiddish typewriter. He would translate some of my mother's stories -- she was a short story writer -- from Russian to Yiddish, and those would be sent to the "Jewish Forward" -- "Forverts." Other than that, not particularly.

CW:Who were the people in your community that your parents were friends with?

SK:Not many friends, in the sense that my mother's English was very poor, and she couldn't very well hold a good conversation. But somebody next door -- their 18:00mother happened to know Russian, so they could converse. That is all that I can recall. But the fact that my mother didn't know English very well came to some surprising ends. There was one where I applied for a passport and I was told I could bring any family member as a witness. Unfortunately, I brought my mother. And she witnessed all the things, and finally, the guy said, "Is this your witness?" "Yes, my mother." "I have to ask you, madam, two questions. Have you been outside the limits of the United States in the past five years?" So she looked at me, because she couldn't -- like this. She said no -- because she didn't understand. "One last question, do you swear allegiance to the United 19:00States?" She said no before I could indicate what he was talking about. He said, "I'd never heard such an answer." I said, "She means yes." (laughs) Funny things like that.

CW:So what was Newark like in the '20s, '30s?

SK:A lovely city. Had a beautiful park. Good schools -- really good schools. Grammar school, high schools -- they were all good. And it was a very nice -- it used to be a suburb of New York, they used to call it. And many times, I took the Hudson tubes to New York for whatever reasons. And I just loved living there.

CW:Did you meet up with your cousins and aunts and uncles often?

SK:Yes. When they visited. And I have movies of all of them. My aunt, Meruse, would come with her husband -- that's my mother's sister -- and their two children. And we'd all cavort. And I have movies of all of those. Not other relatives, though.

CW:What language did you use with those cousins?

SK:English.

CW:Do you have a sense of what your parents -- grandmother's -- maybe those are 21:00two separate questions, but -- attitude towards America was? What was the family's attitude towards America?

SK:My parents' attitude? Like everybody else, really, who emigrated from Russia, with the Bolshevik Revolution, to America, a free country -- very good. My father had to learn a new language. And he got his state boards for practicing medicine and found that Newark was the first -- easier than New York or whatever, so that's where we settled.

CW:Did they often talk about Russia?

SK:Only in the sense that what's going on there now -- whatever the year was. 22:00But since we all spoke Russian at home, this was our Russia in Newark -- right there. Only Russian. That was mother tongue.

CW:Do you remember any -- I mean, was there a particular political atmosphere in your home?

SK:No. I don't recall any.

CW:And so I'd like to ask a little bit about the yortsayt also. So how did you learn about this? Did you grow up with it, or how --SK:Grew up with it. As youngsters, two and three years old, we would cavort in the back some place while they were telling -- and we gradually realized that this was an important 23:00event, so we stopped cavorting and started listening. And then we realized that this was something that was going to happen every year -- going to read stories. We start always by reading Sholem Aleichem's will in Yiddish and, more recently, a translation into English. But I realized that this was something that we cherished.

CW:And what does the will say in it?

SK:The will says that, Once, every year, upon the memorial of my death, I want my children and good friends and relatives to come together and read some of my funny stories in whatever language seems easiest. That was interesting, because 24:00for him to have that much foresight -- and so we knew that, and we're -- usually, it's in English, one out of four is in Yiddish these days. [BREAK IN RECORDING]

CW:What was important for you to pass down to your children about your yikhes -- your family background?

SK:Well, of course, they knew as they were growing up the relationship --

F:The legacy.

SK:The legacy. And they became great-grandchildren just by being there. And as the years wore on, they also attended the annual yortsayt and heard a lot more. And they were also able to read translations. Each of my sons got one of the 25:00busts --

F:And now they run it.

SK:And now they are running -- one of my sons has been running it for the last few years. And his children are very interested in Yiddish culture. And there's no doubt in my mind that after him, one of his children will take over that job. And so it will go, down the line.

CW:To what extent -- what part of your life is Jewish now, these days?

SK:That's a difficult question. I mean, I am who I am. And I can't say that this 26:00or that is part of my life. It's part of who I am.

CW:Are there any things you do that feel particularly Jewish?

SK:Well, I'm a songwriter. And there's one song called "Sing a Song of Joy." The lyric goes, "Sing a song of joy on Hanukkah." And I can give you the sheet music of that before you leave. It's -- that's typically Jewish -- but not the common one that we write.

CW:So when you write, do you ever think about your grandfather and that connection?

SK:Not really, because I'm writing pop, country anthems -- even gospel -- and 27:00inspirational songs -- children's music, that sort of thing.

CW:What about when you write poetry?

SK:Yeah. Then I think of him, in the sense that humor is the main thing that drives me to write poetry. And then, since it's humor, I identify.

CW:I had meant to do this when Bel was here, but I wonder if you could just read this one little poem that we found. It's right here at the bottom.

SK:I'll need my glasses.

CW:It's a poem to Bel.

SK:"So what can I say about Bel? To compete with, and rivals dispel. Well, I am her brother, and there is no other whose DNA matches as well." What you don't have is the next one that I wrote. "Bel has one sibling, it's I. I didn't say 'me,' you know why? Bel's grammar is pure, but mine is unsure, and that's just between you and I."

CW:(laughs) Thank you. So why is humor important?

SK:Well, as you know, there's lots of things that's said about -- can say about humor -- that it lifts your spirits, that it makes aching less, and all the other things. So I think it's universal. Humor for the aborigines is just as -- for anybody. And I think that's why we're all happy with it.

CW:Do you want me to take your glasses back?

SK:Yeah.

F:It makes life great.

CW:Do you see your descendants carrying on this attitude towards humor?

SK:Well, I already said, my son has taken over the whole yortsayt -- his family. 30:00And they're already interested in what's going to happen some years from now. So that, yes.

CW:And the humor?

SK:The humor, absolutely. My grandchildren on that particular son have a wonderful sense of humor that is exceptional even for children. They're not children anymore -- one is now nineteen, one is twenty-three, so -- but the humor was there from childhood.

CW:Other than the yortsayt, are there ever times when you find yourself wanting to read anything by Sholem Aleichem?

SK:Really, I have to tell you that the English translations don't quite carry 31:00the real spirit. Russian translations are better. And I can't read Russian fluently -- I can read script and write Russian fluently, but -- when my mother used to read a story to me just to hear me laugh, I found that funnier than if I read in English the same story. So.

CW:Yeah. Do you think that his writing still is relevant today?

SK:I think it is, in terms of the legacy that he left as a folk writer. And I hope it endures forever, of course.

CW:Who do you think is his audience?

SK:Everyone who enjoys humor. And we see now that there are maybe two or three hundred people attending the yortsayt, whereas at the beginning it was, like, five or six -- then, fifty or sixty. But we held a yortsayt in this very room. We had chairs piled up --

F:(UNCLEAR)

SK:-- furniture that we hired for the purpose. And standing room only. And we would hear people like Herschel Bernardi, Herman Wouk -- people of that stature were here reading a story. Just for that purpose. And so we're very proud of that.

CW:What do you feel that you learned from him, if anything?

SK:Learned from him? I've learned from everyone -- from parents, from friends. And I can't say that there's one thing that I learned from him, other than I'm glad that I have some legacy in the terms of music and humor. Every time I write a poem, I think, How can this be funny? People should laugh at this. Can't do that with popular songs exactly -- they don't laugh. But that's what I think of 34:00him -- think about him.

F:And his humanity.

SK:Humanity. Yes.

CW:What do you mean by that?

SK:To understand everybody in a way that is perceptive spiritually -- that all of them possess particularly a sense of humor, even in sad times. Because that was one of Sholem Aleichem's specialty -- he would take something that sounds terrible and end up being funny. That's what I think.

CW:Great. Well, are there any other stories or thoughts about Sholem Aleichem before we --

SK:Well, there are so many. You know, it's hard to pick a favorite. But right now, I'm thinking of other things.

CW:Right. Well, a sheynem dank [thank you very much].

SK:You too, a sheynem dank.

CW:Thank you very much for taking the time.

SK:My pleasure. Thank you.

[END OF INTERVIEW]