ZVI JANKELOWITZ ORAL HISTORY

JESSICA PARKER: This is Jessica Parker, and today is Thursday, September 4th, 2014. I am here at the Yiddish Book Center in Amherst, Massachusetts, with Zvi Jankelowitz, and we are going to record an interview as part of the Yiddish Book Center's Wexler Oral History Project. Zvi Jankelowitz, do I have your permission to record this interview?

ZVI JANKELOWITZ: Yes.

JP: Thank you. In the first interview we did together, we focused on your childhood in South Africa. Today, we're going to focus on your adult life. So, I'd like to start with, when did you leave South Africa and why?

ZJ: I left South Africa after high school. I think I left -- there were two reasons. One was the pull of Israel. There really was, as well, the push of 1:00South Africa -- that either you have to stay in South Africa in the pre-apartheid years and get involved, or you make a decision to leave. And I think the pull of Israel, as well, motivated me to leave.

JP: Looking back, what was the relationship of the South African Jewish community to Israel?

ZJ: Well, when I -- growing up, it was a very tight relationship. I think I mentioned previously that I had gone as a fifteen-year-old to Israel for four months with an organized study tour. People came from Israel to South Africa for various reasons to meet with the community. There was ongoing dialogue. And, it 2:00was in the time before there was mass emigration from South Africa, so the community was about 120,000 people. It was a very strong community, tight-knit community. There was still the older generation -- the immigrants mainly from Lithuania, who had come. So, there were these tight relationships.

JP: You mentioned a pull to Israel. What was part of that pull?

ZJ: I think the pull was living in -- as a majority, as opposed to being -- living in a minority in a segregated country, where it wasn't just Black-white. It was more that -- that was different socioeconomic groups, different demographic groups, different immigrant groups. So, it was really a segregated 3:00society in that way. I think we touched on it briefly last time, as well.

JP: And did you encounter -- what was the Israel that you encountered like? Did you experience different communities, or was it Jews as the majority?

ZJ: Well, I was fortunate in my first experience in Israel was pre-1973, pre- the Yom Kippur War. So, when I went as a fifteen-year-old in 1972, it was really a different experience. It's very hard to describe in today's world, even after '73 -- there was a different outlook. It was a different country, a different mindset, in a way. So, it was euphoric, in a way. But I think it was, as well, 4:00maybe a romanticized view. You know, a fifteen-year-old, lives in a very secluded existence in South Africa -- very rigid society -- not only in just in -- just in general, and then you come to an open, free society. And I think that's one of the pulls, as well.

JP: Can you just briefly explain why Israel was euphoric at that time?

ZJ: Well, it was five years after the Six-Day War. People thought everything had been resolved. It was a time of economic growth. It was a relaxed time.

JP: You've lived in various countries over the years. Have there been any 5:00experiences that were particularly formative to your sense of identity?

ZJ: Well, each country has a -- just as a point of information, I've lived in Massachusetts longer than I've lived anywhere else in the world. So, even though I speak with an accent and I've lived elsewhere, I've lived in Massachusetts longer than anywhere in the world. So, it's different societies, and I think the formative -- it depends, and it's different stages in one's life. So, where South Africa -- I never lived in South Africa as an adult. I visited it as an adult, but I can't say -- I never worked in South Africa as an adult. So, I don't have that experience. Whereas in Israel, it was my formative years in terms of intellectual learning. But yet, in America, as well, the immigrant 6:00society -- coming into a new culture and going to graduate school and experiencing something new. And America is a different country compared to Israel or South Africa. It's a totally different country. I voted in the primary election -- I won't tell you who I voted for -- I did a absentee ballot for the Massachusetts primary election next week. And very few societies would you have a candidate -- two of the three candidates for the Democratic nomination for governor are Jewish. Two of the three candidates for Democratic state treasurer 7:00in the primary are Jewish. The governor's council, one of the two candidates is Jewish. And, the state rep in my district and the state senator in my district are both Jewish and are unopposed. So, very few societies -- I think very few districts today in America are so predominantly that you would have a Jew on every major ballot. The only per-- where there wasn't a person of Jewish heritage was the US Senate race. So, it's an open society. So, that in itself speaks volumes. And I think having the critical mass, where you have over three 8:00hundred million people, I think that does give you the sense of freedom that is unlike any other society.

JP: Have there been any specific historical events or social movements that were particularly formative to your sense of identity?

ZJ: Well, growing up, I would assume that you could say Zionism. I was a kid. I was born into apartheid, so I can't say that that was an event that happened in my lifetime; it was there when I was born. And I was long gone from South Africa when there was the change to the democratic regime. I guess there hasn't been one defining moment. It's been a series of cumulative moments.

JP: Do you want to give us a sense of some of those cumulative moments?

ZJ: In terms of the society or in terms of --

JP: Of historical context or social movements that cumulatively affected your sense of identity?

ZJ: Well, I definitely think that the -- as I alluded to before, the whole struggle for just society in South Africa definitely was something that affected me. The whole notion of a Jewish state and Zionism -- that did affect me. But was I part of that movement? I wasn't. You know, but as a social movement, that really affected me.

JP: How did you become interested in working in Jewish philanthropy and fundraising?

ZJ: Good question. That's a very good question. Well, I've always been involved. 10:00I think I mentioned previously that my parents were very involved in the Jewish community in Port Elizabeth, South Africa. And when I came to the United States -- it's almost thirty years ago -- I worked in New York. But then when we moved to Boston, I realized that to progress, one had to have two things in life. One is a master's degree, or even higher, but at least a graduate degree. And then the second is a knowledge -- if one's going to be in the nonprofit world -- a knowledge of fundraising and philanthropy. Because one of the things that holds 11:00nonprofits back is the lack of resources. I think that is really one of the challenges -- is how to use the resources wisely, but also how to garner the resources. Because the aspirations of any nonprofit are greater than any of the resources that it will ever have. I worked at Harvard for a while, and the president of Harvard said, Even such a rich and strong university -- its aspirations exceed its resources and goals. And I think to provide an organization -- definitely at the Yiddish Book Center -- with the tools so that the oral history project, the Wexler Oral History Project, can continue, or if the preservation and accessibility of the book collection, or digitization and 12:00translation -- that's always -- the resources need to be there. And in a way, making an impact -- providing the tools for the people who can make an impact is very rewarding, in a way. And it's also very rewarding to give donors the opportunity to make this difference. It's a win-win for both an organization and the donor. That's the ultimate great gift. So, to get back, my interest in philanthropy was, first, being involved in nonprofits, but not from a fundraising standpoint. Realizing that there was a need for fundraising and there was a need -- and one can really impact society in an organization by providing the tools and resources for the practitioners, if one wants to use 13:00those words.

JP: You now work here at the Yiddish Book Center as the director of institutional advancement. Can you briefly describe your work here?

ZJ: Yeah. Well, I feel like I've got the best position in the world. I'm one of the luckiest people. Because I've got this great office that looks over the apple orchard, and it really gives time to contemplate and to formulate ideas -- in terms of fundraising, but also to interact with the tremendous staff, from Aaron Lansky down to the fellows to the students that come every summer. My job is to provide the resources for the Book Center in terms of our fundraising 14:00efforts -- to lead and to strategically plan how we are going to provide the Book Center the money for its work during the operating fiscal year. The Book Center relies heavily on donations. Development is separate from membership, so the Book Center -- if anyone wants to go and see the budget, we're very transparent. You can go on the website and under "development," there's the financials, the audited financials, and the form 990. But just to give an example, the Book Center relies heavily on donations in terms of the operating fund, and then also endowment gifts. So, my job is really to devise a strategy 15:00to really meet donors, meet members, engage with donors, and really expose them to what I had said before in theory in the last question -- it brings back to practice. And one of the great opportunities -- why I say I'm one of the luckiest people -- is that there's so much intellectual stimulation, in that our members really care about the Book Center. And whether it's at a weekend program, whether it's Yidstock, whether it's just someone who's walked in for a visit, it's just a way to engage members and really meet members, feel the pulse. And when I go out -- I travel a lot, as well, for the Book Center -- so when I go out and meet members -- some have never visited the Book Center -- there's this feeling of walking in as a stranger and leaving as mishpokhe, as 16:00family. It's a really unique institution in that way. It's unlike any other fundraising organization that I've worked for, where you walk in as stranger and you leave as family. And that really strengthens the relationship that ultimately will yield the resources for the Book Center.

JP: What interested you in specifically working here at the Yiddish Book Center?

ZJ: Well, that's also a very good question. It really appeals to me -- for a number of reasons, it appealed to me. One, it goes back to my formative -- we've spoken a lot about South Africa. It goes back to my formative years where my grandfather -- I think I mentioned in the last part of this interview -- came 17:00from the Old Country, came from Lithuania. He used to read the "Yidishe afrikaner," "Yidishe tsaytung." And it really appeals to me that this heritage -- this heritage where I think I mentioned that he would speak to his friends and relatives about their heym [home], and you'd think it was a mansion. Their heym -- really, you see what di heym was at the Book Center. It's recreating the culture that existed in a positive way. As well, my mother was a school librarian for a while -- she became a lecturer in a college, but -- and I remember when she was a school librarian. And this memory flashed back the minute I walked into the Book Center, where people would be moving out of their 18:00homes and they would pack their books in boxes and bring the boxes to my mother for the school. And when I walked into the Book Center and walked around and there -- by the incoming shipments, when you see all the different sized boxes from different people, it just -- I could see my late mother bending over and looking at the boxes. So, there's this -- something familiar. But also, the intellectual side. The intellectual -- I like reading. And from a personal point of view, since I've been here, I've discovered something -- and it's really what -- it attests to what the Book Center is. We've spoken a lot about South Africa and I'm interested about my heritage from South Africa, and yet I was oblivious. And I think it was benign neglect. I don't think any -- that there was this whole canon of South African Yiddish literature that really has never been 19:00taught in day schools -- I'm a product of a day school -- hasn't been discussed besides a few translations of a few stories. But at the Book Center, I've managed to find people like -- books by, like, Leybl Feldman, this person from South Africa who wrote "Di yidn in yohanesburg" -- "The Jews of Johannesburg." He wrote "Di yidn in oydtshorn [The Jews of Oudtshoorn]" -- I think that's the name of the book, which is on display with the ostriches on the cover. But beyond him, there's his brother, Richard Feldman or Rachmiel Feldman, who was a very progressive politician in the '30s and '40s in South Africa who happened to 20:00be also a Yiddish writer. And he wrote one book called "Shvarts un vays" -- "Black and White" -- where -- it's the only South African Yiddish book that went into second edition. And through that, I found out that he and his wife had a salon -- an intellectual salon -- in Johannesburg. And one of his closest friends -- one of the couple's closest friends -- was Irma Stern, the South African painter who's now become a superstar in the last couple of years, especially in the London art market. And so, there's this whole hidden South Africa. And being someone with an accent, people ask me where I'm from. I was visiting a member in Philadelphia, and he was telling me how he had traveled to 21:00South Africa in his capacity as a journalist. And his grandfather came to Philadelphia from Keidan, in Lithuania. And he went to South Africa, and he looked up the -- there was an author -- a writer -- David Volpe -- who actually went from Lithuania to then-Palestine. For some reason, he went back to Lithuania. He landed up in Dachau, the concentration camp, and then came to South Africa after the war. And here this person was telling me how he went and met with Volpe, who was from Keidan himself, two weeks before he died at the age of ninety-six. So, there's this intellectual pull, as well. And there are other 22:00writers, as well -- it could go on and on. There was somebody from South Africa who came during Yidstock. She didn't come for Yidstock, she happened to come on the Friday of Yidstock. And we were speaking about the South African Yiddish and how it's been neglected, in a way. And here is the Book Center, who opens up all these avenues. And it really is a testament of what the Book Center's mission is.

JP: Are there any particular Yiddish cultural works that are important to you?

ZJ: Well, I think I just was speaking about the South African -- those Yiddish works are really -- it's really a key. Like, I wish I could unlock the lock with that key, but it's still -- my Yiddish isn't that good that I could read it. But 23:00those works really speak about a different South Africa. It really is a -- it's a window into South Africa that's never been translated. Some of the stories of Richard Feldman were translated. There's one of Leybl Feldman's books was translated. But they -- what was translated in a very limited edition. There's a book that I just bought for myself personally online that I just received from Cape Town that was published by the Kaplan Centre at UCT, at the University of Cape Town. And that is the first translation of the book. And then there's a collection that the late Joseph Sherman did, of short stories of different authors. But it really -- South African Yiddish literature is still locked, in a way. And so, that's very interesting. And then, obviously, the whole vast notion 24:00of Yiddish literature, and just learning not only of the greats, but really going through and -- the day-to-day writers, the people who transcribed or wrote novels about the real life in the shtetl [small Eastern European village with a Jewish community], not the romanticized. So, there's this person that someone told me -- and I think a translation fellow is working on the translation this year -- is the books by Avrom Karpinowitz, who wrote about Vilna and about the day-to-day life. And it was messy. It wasn't a clean life. So, to get an authentic view -- because I think it's still romanticized. But yet, again, 25:00obviously, Sholem Aleichem -- you know, what would the world be without Sholem Aleichem?

JP: Are there any Yiddish cultural works that you had connections to as a child or young adult that you have the same or different connections to now?

ZJ: Well, as a child, Sholem Aleichem was someone that you knew. And I remember going to a one-person show with my parents. I was very small. It was, like, 1968. And here, many, many years later, there's the -- he has the Sholem Aleichem works. And, it's a full circle. I think you were there, as well, at the yahrzeit [anniversary of death] -- the ninety-eighth yahrzeit of Sholem Aleichem. So, I think most people had some interaction with Sholem Aleichem. But 26:00it's a whole different interaction now. Hearing Jeremy Dauber speak about "The Worlds of Sholem Aleichem" and spending the weekend here and people discussing it -- it's a whole different view than when -- as a child.

JP: What do you see as the future of Yiddish?

ZJ: That's a very hard question, because there are people that will say that -- I met someone who said their father wrote these books in English -- phrases of Yiddish -- because wherever he could travel in the world, Yiddish was the lingua franca of the Jewish people. It's still vibrant. I'm surprised how many people still speak Yiddish. And as, I think, Aaron quotes Bashevis Singer -- the last 27:00sentence, that he says, "Yiddish is still dying." I don't think Yiddish will die out, but it will be a different relationship. But not immediately. I think there are still many gener-- not generations, but there are decades where people -- where there'll be native speaker -- people who spoke Yiddish at their home will be declining and it will be different. And then there's this resurgence that we see at the Book Center, as well, of younger people wanting to explore. So, who knows? Maybe there'll be a resurgence. One never knows. But there's definitely an interest. We see the young people come every year: college-aged students, you see post-college, you see high school students coming to explore. So, I think -- 28:00I don't see it dying. I think there will always be Yiddish. But obviously, it will be a different Yiddish than the older generations and how they related to Yiddish. And then, you have the whole question of the Hasidic community and then, well, do they -- with the access to the internet and the access to the books -- is there another enlightenment that's going to occur? Or, what will happen? So, I think that the historical trends -- some of them remain to be seen.

JP: Do you think what's happening now is a resurgence?

ZJ: Yes. From speaking to people, as well. I think, as well -- anecdotally, I 29:00see that more and more people that I meet when I travel, of the baby boomer generation, are exploring Yiddish because it's something that they were locked out from by their parents. So, there's this wanting, now that they have some discretionary time, to explore Yiddish and try and understand Yiddish. What were their parents saying? And I think the Book Center has captured that, in a way, with Yiddish school. And, we saw how forty people came -- it was sold out overnight. And the same thing with the Yiddish course that's given at the Book Center for credit through Hampshire College, where college-aged students. So, the demand is there. I think there's pent-up demand, actually, with the baby boomers.

JP: Do you think we're heading towards that kind of enlightenment?

ZJ: Well, the enlightenment I'm speaking of was more about the Hasidic community and -- but I think there is this exploration, that people want to explore their roots, in a way. They want to know: What is it that we missed? Why did our parents not teach us the language?

JP: How has your relationship to or interest in Yiddish evolved over your lifetime?

ZJ: Well, as a teenager, like every teenager -- I think I mentioned this as well -- I mocked my grandfather at times. "What are you reading this newspaper for?" When I was in college, I actually took a course -- a semester of Yiddish. But it wasn't -- it was in the days when it wasn't a full-fledged program, but there was a Yiddish course. Because my minor was Jewish history. I think coming to the 31:00Book Center has really given me this amazing appreciation -- what Aaron Lansky has done in terms of -- because I think of the books that would have disappeared. Obviously, there were books that would have remained. But the books that would have disappeared, and the works and the culture. And so, there's this love of Yiddish that I have developed in the past few years.

JP: You speak, read, and write both Yiddish and Hebrew. How do these two Jewish languages influence your identity?

ZJ: Well, I don't speak it fluently -- just that I can make myself understood with Yiddish. I think it's a core part of my Jewish identity. I've known the alef-beys [alphabet] since I was six, seven. So, it's who I am. I heard Yiddish 32:00in my home -- my grandparents, my parents -- from a young age. So, it's who I am.

JP: But then, the relationship of that with Hebrew for your own identity?

ZJ: In terms of -- well, it was in the time when you learned Hebrew. You didn't learn Yiddish. The majority language was Hebrew. And that is something that I became fluent -- early on in my life.

JP: What were the similarities and differences in attitudes to Yiddish in South Africa, Israel, and the US?

ZJ: Well, I never thought of it in those terms. In South Africa, Yiddish was for 33:00the older generation. It was for my grandparents' generation -- the immigrant generation. It was the language of the immigrants. Definitely, it wasn't the language that my parents spoke to their friends, or they spoke, or that generation spoke to my generation. That -- it was the past. There could have been some diehards, but to speak broadly, generally, it was the language of the immigrants. And the same thing in Israel, as well. In Israel, I think, more than just the generation of immigrants that came from Europe -- pre-state Israel, it was also the language of the survivors, of the Holocaust, of the tragedy. And I 34:00think -- I was speaking to one person in Chicago, and I mentioned -- used the words -- the Hebrew word "Shoah" and the English word "Holocaust." And that person pointed out to me, in Yiddish, you don't say "Shoah" or "Holocaust" -- you say, "khurbn," which means "destruction." And I think that really is an apt word in terms of the relationship to Yiddish in Israel. It was looked upon as the language of the "khurbn." And in America -- well, here at the Book Center it's the language of resurgence or exploration or delving into your own roots. But in general, I think the mainstream in any of these countries is that Yiddish 35:00is the kitsch. You'll have a few words -- I was watching Colbert, and he looked at Mandy Patinkin and he said, "You've got a very nice punim [face]." And I think it's become clichéd, in a way -- "chutzpah" and -- just the words that have gone into entertainment, into the mainstream.

JP: How does your connection to Yiddish, Yiddishkayt, and Eastern European Jewish heritage fit into your broader sense of Jewish identity?

ZJ: Well, again, I think it's who I am. Whether it's the food I eat -- you know, whether it's the gefilte fish -- or we go to someone for break-fast and her 36:00parents were from Lithuania and she makes herring pie -- gehakte [chopped] herring, I think that's what it's called in Yiddish. And I'm the only one who eats it. But that's who I am, because herring was a major, major part of the Baltic states, of the Lithuanian diet. So, I think if you speak about how it influences me -- well, the diet -- I think it influences me in who I am. I will take an interest in somebody from an Eastern European country, try and understand where they came from, what they do. Is there some connection, some 37:00similarity? And then, obviously, the -- understanding that this world fell apart at the turn of the last cent-- the turn of the nineteenth to the twentieth century, that the migratory paths began then. And then the whole nuclear family disintegrated, in terms of -- in my own family, my grandparents had siblings who went to Canada, they went to America, they went to South Africa. It was dispersed. It wasn't this one area. And just by a stroke of luck did we land up in South Africa as opposed to America or Canada -- or even remain in Lithuania. So, I think that's something that influences me. But the whole -- let's say 38:00klezmer. I think the whole klezmer -- when the concerts -- especially, there was one concert -- the nigun [melodies], with Frank London, on Friday afternoon before Shabbos. And just the whole notion of this -- like, it struck an inner chord in me.

JP: In addition to the Eastern European and South African origins, you've also spent substantial portions of your life in Israel and, most recently, for thirty years, in the United States. How would you characterize your Jewish identity today?

ZJ: In what way?

JP: In terms of -- influenced by your various origins or, however you see yourself as a Jew today?

ZJ: Well, I see, in a way, as a global Jew -- in terms that there's not one 39:00place that I -- that, because I've had interaction with Jews in South Africa, Jews in Israel, Jews in the United States, it's really one fam-- it's very hard to differentiate when you're speaking about Judaism, that these are the same people, they're just in different areas, and because they're in different areas, they have different norms. But it really influences one in a totality. It's the sum of the parts.

JP: So, you see yourself as a global Jew?

ZJ: In a way, yeah. I'm an American, but I'm, in a sense, a global Jew.

JP: So, what does that mean to you?

ZJ: Well, it means that I follow the news, let's say, of Jews in South Africa. 40:00Do I read everything that happens? No. Do I get excited? No. But I'm still -- take an interest in Jews -- what's happening with Jews in South Africa. Obviously, it's a totally different experience than from when I was there. But still, it's something that interests me, whether it's -- let's take Facebook. I'd say the majority of the posts that come up on Facebook are about Israel or about something from "Tablet" or the "Forward" or something happening in world Jewry. And that's by no accident. Because everyone who's linked to -- most of the people, not a hundred percent -- but most of the people that are linked in to me to Facebook are either people who went to high school with me in South Africa as Jews -- they live all over the world today -- they're either people I 41:00know from college in Israel or they're people I know from America, from either going to graduate school at Brandeis or people I know professionally. So, in a way, my Facebook page -- and it's amazing sometimes how many people from different parts of the world, from different areas that I know who've got no connection, will post the same thing from "Tablet" or from the "Forward" or from "Times of Israel." So, in a way, that's what I mean by being a global Jew.

JP: And do you also feel like at this point you have a connection to American Jewry?

ZJ: For sure. For sure.

JP: And how does that play into your identity at this point?

ZJ: Well, it's where I give my philanthropy to -- my tsedakah. It's -- in terms 42:00of what I do with my free time, I just got a mailing from an organization -- they're doing an event at the Museum of Fine Arts about the Judaica collection. I'm interested in art in general, but because it's Judaica art, Judaica, it's something that I'd be more interested than -- let's say, I responded quicker than otherwise.

JP: And are there other ways in which you participate in the American Jewish community?

ZJ: Well, there's shul. There's shul, there's -- and I think tsedakah and then my philanthropy is the most -- the two most important ways.

JP: What has been most important for you to transmit to the generations after you about Jewish identity?

ZJ: Well, on a personal note, I think -- and it's happened since we spoke last 43:00time -- on a personal note, the most important thing for me about the future generations is my grandson, that his parents have brought him into a Jewish world. So, knowing that there's another generation, I think that's the most important part of anything.

JP: Was this grandson born since our last interview?

ZJ: If it took place in -- (laughs) yeah. He was born last year. He just turned a year. Yeah.

JP: How is what you're transmitting to your children similar or different from what you feel your parents were transmitting to you?

ZJ: It's a whole different ballgame. Because I lived in a small community -- 44:00there were three thousand Jews at its heyday. You went with the same people, more or less, to school from kindergarten to high school. It was a much more nuclear family, whereas my kids grew up in a open society. But it's still the same values -- that Judaism and Yiddishkayt are still very important.

JP: Can you describe a few of the values?

ZJ: Well, I think marrying someone -- another Jew. Having Jewish grandchildren, I think, is very, very important. Caring about Israel. Really caring about things Jewish. Having a -- to be able to discuss what's going on in the world Jewishly.

JP: You mentioned your grandson being brought into a Jewish world. What does "a Jewish world" mean to you?

ZJ: Well, that he had a bris, that both sets of grandparents are Jewish, that -- there are the values.

JP: What advice do you have for future generations?

ZJ: That's a tough question, because it's looking into the future. I think it's adapting to changes in the world, just like my grandparents -- I always think of my grandmother, who was born in 1900, and the change that she saw -- in first the automobile and then planes, jet travel. And we've seen the change from -- 46:00I've seen the change from a non-connected world, where there were no computers, no internet -- there was no Facebook, no Twitter, no instant communication. And I'm sure -- I always remember my late father speaking about the telephone -- that one day, you will speak on a phone, you'll pick up, and you'll look at the person while he's speaking. Where he got this notion from, it was in the '60s and he always said that. When he would call my grandparents, who didn't live in our town -- his parents -- and he'd say, "One day, you'll just pick up the phone and you'll look at them and you'll be speaking to them." And, I think that -- so, we're at that stage where you can do FaceTime, you can call people instantly 47:00anywhere in the world. So, there'll be a natural progression. I take it for granted that, let's say, fifty years from now, there'll be new inventions that we aren't aware of. There'll be space travel, there'll be -- we've seen the beginnings of electric vehicles. It will be a whole different world again. And it would be to reinvent Judaism and Yiddishkayt to fit into that world -- just that our grandparents managed to change the world and fit it into -- with the modernization of society, how to relate. And we've managed to adapt it in our time.

JP: Before we close, I wanted to ask if there's anything else you'd like to add or talk about.

ZJ: I think we've covered a lot in the two sessions.

JP: Great. Well, with that, I would like to say that it's been a pleasure, and to thank you personally for sharing your stories and reflections with me. I also want to thank you on behalf of the Yiddish Book Center for participating in the Wexler Oral History Project.

ZJ: It's been my pleasure, as well.

JP: A sheynem dank [Thank you very much].

[END OF INTERVIEW]