DANIEL WELTLINGER ORAL HISTORY

AGNIESZKA ILWICKA:This is Agnieszka Ilwicka, and today is 9th May, 2016. I'm here in the shul in Wrocław, in Poland, with Daniel Weltlinger, and we are going to record an interview as part of the Yiddish Book Center's Wexler Oral History Project. Daniel, do I have your permission to record this interview?

DANIEL WELTLINGER: Why, of course you do.

AI:Thank you very much. Just to start, could you tell me briefly what you know about your family background?

DW:Well, first thing, I'm born in Sydney, Australia. My brother also. We've grown up in a traditional Jewish family. Our entire family in terms of our 1:00grandparents came from the Austro-Hungarian Empire. My mother's mother came from -- I think it's Kamenke -- Kamionka, sorry -- from Kamionka, near Lublin. And she went and lived in Vienna from the age of three. And then, during the Second World War she was hidden in Morocco, in Casablanca, which is where she met her husband, which was my grandfather, who originally came from Hungary, from Szolnok, and then Budapest, and then he lived in France for twenty years, and then he was in Morocco after the Second World War, which is where he met my grandmother. Then, my mother was born there. And there was an uprising in Morocco. When my mother was seven, they came to Australia because my grandmother had a sister living there. Meanwhile, my father, he was born in Hungary, and he grew up in Siófok, in the Balaton, and then was taken to Israel at the age of 2:00two or three by his adopted parents. And at the age of twelve, they left Israel and went to Australia, same story. His adopted father had a brother living in Australia, and so both my parents came to Australia at a young age and -- very small family and ended up staying in Australia because it was too difficult to leave Australia. And they made their life, and they met one another in Australia, with single children and had two kids. And I moved to Europe three years ago.

AI:Do you have any family stories that have been passed down?

DW:Many. (laughs)

AI:Then give me a few.

DW:Many family stories passed down. Where do you begin? Well, the main story is of my grandfather. He was the big influence out of everyone, definitely, because he was a violin player and I play violin, so it's a tradition passed down from 3:00him. And his brother was a violin player, and I would imagine it was a family tradition from a long, long, long time. It's a pretty crazy story. In around 1920 or '21, he left Hungary with two friends, and they had no papers, no passport, nothing. He had a violin on his back. And this violin now is in Australia, in Sydney. And he went with his friends and went to Vienna. They walked to Vienna, from Budapest to Vienna, 'cause he was -- even though he's from Szolnok, he lived in Budapest. And in Vienna, they saw what he described as a Hitler Youth march -- early days, so probably I would say he saw Hitler. He saw the early days of what was gonna happen. And they fled, and they went to many countries. And no country, of course, would want them, because they'd no passport, no paper, nothing. And the one country that did allow them to live in was France, and the border police said, We don't care. You can come; you're 4:00welcome. And so, from then on, he became very proudly French, became a Francophile, a real Francophile. To the point that actually in his apartment I remember very distinctly there being French flags on every single lamp post. And he lived in France for about twenty years. And then, in the Second World War, he was in the French Resistance. He fought for France. And this was a story I've always grown up with, and he was very proudly French because of what -- the way he was treated in France. Yeah. That's one story.

AI:This is why your mother became a French literature specialist?

DW:Pardon me?

AI:This is why your mother became -- French literature teacher?

DW:Well, the French influence was very strong. My mother was born in Morocco, in Casablanca. But at the time she was born in Morocco, it was a colony of France. 5:00It was really like an extension of France in North Africa. And there was a whole French society in Casablanca. So, friends of my mum and my grandparents in Morocco -- it's really like -- it feels like the South of France or something. My grandfather actually lived in Marseilles. That was the city he lived in. He was in Paris, also, of course, and other places. But his town where he lived was Marseilles. And he played the violin in café orchestras, and he knew Édith Piaf, and he was good friends with Albert Camus and quite a few other people. I think he might -- I remember him telling me a story that he lived next door to Ravel's grandmother or something like this. Yeah. He knew a lot of people. Grew up hearing all sorts of names floating about as a kid.

AI:Do you know why they moved to Australia?

DW:Yeah, I do. With my mother and her parents -- there was a uprising in 6:00Morocco. They had to get out of Morocco. There was an uprising against French colonial rule. And my grandmother had a brother living in Switzerland. He was a banker. And he actually set up the Tangier's exchange, I think, before the Second World War. And he also was responsible for my grandmother surviving -- and my grandmother's mother, their mother, surviving -- they managed to escape. But they had to flee for their lives, actually, from Vienna where they were living to Kraków and then to some harbor where they sailed to Morocco. But that was because of him. But his wife was very difficult, and she wouldn't allow my grandmother, my grandfather, and my mum, to go to Switzerland where they were living to become citizens. She made it difficult. So, my grandmother had a sister living in Australia. So, they have a sister and a brother who survived. Her other sister was killed, and her niece went to America, was -- given to the 7:00Red Cross. And so, my grandmother had a sister in Australia, and they arranged for safe passage to Australia. When they got to Australia, they were not very happy, because the two sisters didn't get on so well, and -- yeah, it was far away, so they were stuck there. That's what happened. And then, with my father, it was exactly the same story. Well, not with an uprising, but he was extremely poor. My mother's family also, my grandparents, they were poor, but my father was extremely poor, living in Israel. He lived in a migrant absorption village at that time, called Ramat Yishai. Now it's a little city. But he was really poor. And I remember him telling me stories of -- I even saw where he lived. It had, like, two rooms and a toilet right out the back, and I think it was very, very hard for him. And his -- well, what was his father -- it was his adopted 8:00father, but who he knew as his father had a brother living in Australia who was talking about how there was gold in the streets and all these opportunities and how amazing it was. And they arranged for my father and his parents to come to Australia. And then, they came to Australia; it's the same story. The two brothers didn't get on so -- (laughs) it sounds the same -- the two brothers didn't get on so good; they were stuck in Australia. And so, these two little tiny families came to Australia, and my parents met. Yeah. That's how they came to Australia.

AI:Can you describe your home you grew up in?

DW:Sure, but it was very unusual. It was really a lot of people around me, because I've grown up in the Jewish community in Sydney, and a bit of a traditional family, like in terms of Jewish traditions. And also Yiddishkayt. 9:00But around the Jewish community, I guess a lot of people in general, they kept their Jewish identity very strongly, but the European identity not necessarily so strongly. You know? This was this, yeah, this European identity, of course, and many Hungarians in Sydney and Melbourne. There's many in Polish. And amongst the older generation, of course. There was very strong European heritage. But around my mum's and my dad's generation, and certainly in my generation, that European feeling was not so strong in general. Or not as strong. And with my parents and also with my grandparents and great-auntie -- great-uncle, I didn't know so good. He was living a bit further away. At home and in the homes of my grandparents, it was like Europe. It was really like Europe. My father's 10:00parents, I didn't get to know. My grandfather, what I knew as my grandfather, he died when I was two, and his wife died well before. But yeah, really I was in a European cocoon, surrounded by different languages, even though they -- I wasn't spoken to in those languages. So, I heard French all the time. My mother was spoken to in French all the time. And also, I heard bits of German and a tiny bit of Yiddish. My father taught me how to read and write Hebrew, and in Jewish school I learned some Hebrew. So, it was sort of like I was in this European cocoon. And my grandfather played violin all the time. I grew up with him always with a violin, every photo with a violin, and I loved it. And I grew up hearing music all the time, and mum was always singing, and dad was creating funny drawings and telling me funny stories, and it was just super creative and just different to the world outside. So, the Australian world was really different to my home world. So, I grew up with that from a very young age. Yeah.

AI:Who were your neighbors?

DW:I have no idea. There was one -- truthfully, there was a very nice girl (laughs) who was living behind my parents' house when they were together, many years ago. And she was really friendly and she -- really nice to me. She was a lot older. And she was quite beautiful. And she was also super creative, and I think she was a bit lonely. And she used to come over all the time, and I think I vaguely remember they -- my parents made puppet shows when I was a young kid, and she'd come and hang out. But then, my parents split when I was about twelve. Yeah, actually, that's interesting. My mother -- well, she recently moved out of this place, after twenty-six years in the same house. But she had no interaction with neighbors whatsoever 'cause the houses -- it was a weird house. It was not really -- it was not built in a way that was easy to interact with people in the 12:00neighborhood. It's not much of a neighborhood. Whereas my father lived in a semi-detached house, and the people next door, we're very close to to this day. And it was a lady and her daughter, and it was my father and me often there, and sometimes my brother would be over. I was living with my father for a while also, and he passed away in 2001. And yeah, we were very clo-- in that time, we were always together with the neighbors, and this was lovely. But very small, also. The lady and her daughter -- yeah, they also had their own world within their house. It was a small family and -- it was nice. Not so European. They're more Sydney Jewish community and very traditional but really nice people. And that was really lovely. Mm.

AI:Did you -- were part of any organization during the period when you were 13:00growing up, or some --

DW:In any Jewish youth groups?

AI:Or any other --

DW:Well, yeah, actually, (laughs) my parents met, of all places, at Bnei Akiva. Which sounds crazy. And I actually went to Bnei Akiva. (laughs) I did. I went when I was younger. Nice people. Because I had a -- I was a bit traditional. Not religious by any means, but like I said, interested in Judaism. And we still keep some festivals like Passover, Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur. I think at the time when my parents went to Bnei Akiva, they -- that was something for them to belong to, because they were single children. They had no siblings. My father actually did -- does have a -- he's passed away, but there was a sibling, which is his half-sister who lives in Israel, in Kfar Saba. And this is part of a complicated -- a very complicated family story. It's actually complicated on all 14:00sides. But he was adopted, and he actually knew his real father and his half-sister in Israel, but he didn't know when he was in Israel, up to the age of twelve, that that was his real father and his half-sister. He grew up with his foster parents, thinking they were his parents, even though they're quite a bit older. And so, he was separated from his sister and from his real father, so I never knew my grandfather, who was in Israel, and unfortunately I never met him. So, basically my parents were single children in Australia with different mother languages: my father Hebrew and Hungarian, my mother French and German. And they were in Australia, and they were alone as children, which is very hard. And outsiders, because they were not so integrated like maybe some other people also within Jewish community who are maybe more integrated or maybe came with bigger families or had more wealth or et cetera. A lot of different factors. And they were poor as well. On both sides, they were poor. So, that youth group I 15:00think was something for them to join, and they felt included, and they had a nice time, and they met one another there. So, because they met there, I went to such a youth group myself. I went to Bnei Akiva, but this was from, like, the age of -- I don't know, nine or ten or something until the age of fourteen. It was, like, four years or so. And it was nice, but I was never particularly religious, and then after a while I thought, Oh, I'm not so religious. I like some aspects of religion and tradition, but I'm not so religious myself, personally. Good luck to them. They were all nice people, but not for me.

AI:Can you briefly tell me about your education, both in terms of general education and Jewish life?

DW:I went to Jewish schools. So, I went to first a school called Moriah College, which was quite traditional, and then went to the Reform school, although it's 16:00not really anything. It was a bit Reform, a bit not Reform. It was like, you could do what you want. And this school was called Emanuel School. So, I had -- I was always within the Jewish community. I did a lot of music as well. I was going to -- it's called the Preparatory Department at the Sydney Conservatorium from the age of eight till the age of seventeen, every weekend, doing some -- all the classical music and chamber music and solo concerts, and I was playing in youth orchestras. I've had a lot of music training, a really lot of music training. Even at school, I was always the performing monkey boy on violin, (laughs) playing everywhere. And they used me to play everywhere. And it was really nice. It was fantastic. I just got to play music all the time. And I had a scholarship also at the music school -- pardon me -- not music school, I had a scholarship at my normal school, and it was a music scholarship, so I got some 17:00of the money off from the fees, 'cause it was quite expensive. It was for my parents quite expensive to go to private school. And as a result, because you have a scholarship for music, that meant they had the right to ask me to perform a lot. So, it was great. So, that meant I got lots of experience performing all the time for all kinds of things, and often also for Jewish organizations, for old people, all kinds of stuff. But I just got -- they made use of me being a violin player. And always, even up to this day, people in the Jewish community in Sydney always say, Oh, I remember you from when you were a kid, playing -- I don't know, whatever age when I -- whether I was a teenager or when I was a little kid, I was always the guy playing violin, from a very young age.

AI:So far we've been talking about your background. I know that today you perform professionally with violin, with many musicians.

DW:Um-hm.

AI:And I would like to turn now to discussion about how you got where you are today.

DW:Okay.

AI:So, let's start with some questions about your history of Yiddish.

DW:Okay.

AI:So, just to start, how would you describe your knowledge of Yiddish?

DW:Extremely scant. (laughs) That's a really tough one, because sometimes influences -- I think this is for all people. This is not just my story; it's everyone's story, actually. It's like, your influences, they come back to you later in life. You start thinking, Oh, that's right, I remember hearing this word. Oh, that's right, I heard this sound. And although I didn't grow up with Yiddish language -- and I always think people who grew up with the language are so fortunate. People who just grew up learning to speak this language -- it really is an old Jewish language, and it has a lot of meaning and warmth to it. Even still, I did grow up with Yiddish influences. I certainly grew up with 19:00Yiddish words, which got thrown around at home. Especially by my mother's mother, my maternal grandmother, and my mother. And even a bit my father. There were words always thrown in and I always heard words. They were not necessarily the cliché words, they were just nice words that I grew up with in later years, and especially recently is that I've started performing with my good friend Karsten Troyke and really delving into the Yiddish music more than I ever have before. This is in addition to playing Jewish music. I must make a difference between delving into the Yiddish, which is a very specific world, as opposed to playing some Yiddish songs that I've heard from before. And realizing more and more that these influences were there from long before, like some words. But not the knowledge of -- the ability to speak the language. So, it's maybe bits of 20:00the language I've heard as a child. I'd certainly heard some German, which is related. I learned some Hebrew as a child. French, it all relates somehow. And in terms of the music -- this is also interesting, is that my grandfather, the style of music he played was a real mixed bag. So, he played some Yiddish songs, but not exclusively Yiddish. So, his style of playing and the sound of what he was playing, even though he did it in France, was unquestionably Central/East European. It was Hungarian. And it had a tiny bit of a Gypsy flavor to it, which is where that comes from for me. There was something from way back where. I just -- it's in the turn, it's in the feeling, it's in the finesse, it's in the I-don't-know-what. So, I heard a lot of -- like some Russian Gypsy songs, a few Hungarian Gypsy Czárdáses, and then I heard some French love songs and some classical tunes (laughs) and some Yiddish, you know what I mean? So, it was this 21:00mixed bag. It's just like all mishung [mix] of stuff from a young age. And now, for the last three years that I've been in Berlin, I'm really starting to delve into the Yiddish. Obviously, it is the early days, but I'm gonna -- I really should look into the language and look more into the history and the repertoire, et cetera. And I'm doing anyway. And the realization has dawned on me that the influence is strong from many years before, but not in an obvious way, in a really nice, subtle way.

AI:What was the attitude towards Yiddish in your family and community?

DW:There was no attitude. (laughs) There was no thought process about Yiddish specifically. I think that was -- that's the really nice thing. I think that 22:00certainly Yiddishkayt and -- I mean, a word thrown around a lot is "kheyn [charm]," if something has kheyn? This word I've heard forever. It just was. It was not ever analyzed. It was never spoken about. I mean, Jewish traditions were talked about. It was always alluded to the tragic history of our family -- like, really shocking history -- and very dark undercurrents. But in terms of Yiddish culture or language, it was just there, without ever being spoken about, you know? It was never analyzed. I never heard, "Oh, that's a Yiddish word." Never. It was just a word thrown, and you'd hear it and -- I'd hear it as a child. That's it.

AI:So, there was no separation between --

DW:No, nothing at all. In fact, the only thing separate, really, was -- well, not really separate, but what I always heard about was anything to do with 23:00French culture or France. 'Cause -- and that came from my grandfather, and I guess -- well, that makes sense. My grandparents -- my mother just recently found this documentation that her parents were -- or they became naturalized French citizens in 1950 in Morocco. And I think for my grandfather, that was a big thing that -- I mean, understandably -- that he'd escaped Hungary, because obviously terrible things had happened. I do know some stories what happened to him. It was terrible. He had his -- they made him take his pants down to check he was Jewish or not, for -- to go to the army, and I think he was freaked out and shocked by this, and he left. And this was in 1920. This was a terrible time. This was a terrible time in lots of places. It was the context of the time. But I think that no country would let him in, and that France at this time -- it's amazing in 2016 talking about such a thing, given the current political 24:00climate, talking about refugees, all this stuff. It's crazy stuff. My grandfather walked in 1920 or '21 to France, and France -- the border police said, We don't care who you are, you have no papers, passports, you're welcome. It was an amazing thing. Actually, a nice story, a really nice one: you know, I was mentioning the violin, which he carried across Europe, and then he ended up in the Second World War, fighting, and then he was in North Africa, and now that violin's in Australia. Is the other violin, which was also his, which my mother bought for him. It was sentimental. He had two violins, so his babies. That violin I carry with me everywhere. It was also his. And several years ago, I was in Berlin -- it was really crazy. I was in (UNCLEAR), and I was crossing near Gesundbrunnen, from West to former East, from Wedding to -- into Prenzlauer Berg, to go to see a friend of mine, an Israeli piano player, at a small bar. 25:00And I had my violin on my back. And I was thinking, This is amazing. I'm crossing in Berlin, in -- I think it was 2014 -- and it was snowing, (laughs) from West Berlin, Wedding, to former East, Prenzlauer Berg, and there's the Alexanderplatz tower, with my violin. And about just less than a hundred years ago, my grandfather with a violin on his back was crossing from Budapest to Vienna and then from Vienna to I don't know where, and eventually to France, where he was, with a violin. And that's really something. Yeah. (laughs)

AI:Why did you decide to come to Europe?

DW:A number of reasons. I think for me, one thing that definitely I feel, as much as I love Australia, as much as I'm born in Australia -- and as much as I 26:00am Australian. I think you can never run away from where you're born. You know, (UNCLEAR) the accent that you carry. So, it's certainly not running away from it. It's just the reality is that we're such a small family, and I think, What is the future? And with such a rich family history as ours, because we are from a very rich family history, and it's very dense, in terms of what we're related to, and it's not like the whole story's even known. And so much culture and languages and so much. And to me, it seems almost like a waste that the future's in Australia and that all this language and culture will be gone. Of course it is, 'cause English? You can't maintain this culture and -- I mean, talking about the European culture. Jewish culture, this can continue forever. But the European culture? This is very hard to continue in Australia. And being a violin 27:00player and playing the music I play -- 'cause I play, of course, a lot of European music, a lot of Jewish music. I play a lot of Sinti music, like the music of Django Reinhardt, a lot of -- some Gypsy music and jazz and this mix. The context of doing this in Australia's different to being in Europe. For me, also the languages of our family, which I have some knowledge of -- like I said, I know a little bit of French and working on my German, and I can understand some Hebrew, but it's just a bit -- in Australia, it's very hard to maintain these languages, whereas being in Europe? It just makes it of course more practical, and it's more realistic that these languages and that it will come back. And I guess it's a way of preserving the future, yeah, basically. And then, the music, of course, is important, but the first thing on my mind is preserving the future, definitely.

AI:So, what are you trying to say in front of (UNCLEAR)? You're preserving for future the European background --

DW:Yup.

AI:-- of your family.

DW:Yup. Basically. Which I think is -- I feel it's right. But that's my personal circumstances. I think other pe-- I actually really think that for a lot of people that end up in Australia with big families and lots of security and happiness, it's wonderful. And they become Australian, and they're happy, and it's beautiful. But in our particular family circumstances, because we're so small, and so much was lost and -- ah, it just feels like such a waste to just throw it away, do you know? It's like -- (sighs) I just feel like, it's a responsibility to be in Europe, and -- I mean, it's beautiful, too, and it's ma-- my life today is -- it's really nice. I'm playing the music I want to play, I still go back to Australia two times a year to see my mother and brother and friends, and my mother comes to Europe, and it's all beautiful, actually. It's 29:00turned out, so far, lovely. But outside of my personal enjoyment with my life is a more serious and thoughtful rea-- and not serious like sad, like serious in a nice way -- and thoughtful reason for coming to Europe. It is a sort of conservation for the future. And I'm realistic too. I understand that Europe has undercurrents that are problematic also today. But I try to do what I can to create -- promote culture and tolerance between people, and I do my thing and always -- feet on the ground. And I know people in lots of places, and it's very interesting. (laughs) What can I say?

AI:I would like to ask you about your mentors, if any, on your way to the Yiddishkayt. How did it happen that Yiddishkayt became a thing in your life? 30:00Because now you're deeply immersed in it.

DW:Mm.

AI:And --

DW:I was always deeply immersed in it.

AI:Sure. But I would like to ask you about the people, specific people, who inspire you or who are your tour guides in this --

DW:That's an interesting question, actually. I'd say my mother, in particular, with Yiddishkayt. The Yiddishkayt, you're talking about. It's two different things. My father was more with -- this is really nice. My late father was with Jewish philosophy. A lot of sort of the deeper, more gentle thinking comes from my father. And he was actually -- it's interesting -- when he was young, I think he was eleven, he was, like, a Torah scholar. He knew the whole Torah by heart or something. He was a genius. He became progressively a bit less religious when he came to Australia. When he came to Australia, actually, he was wearing a head covering; we're in the shul, so I'm wearing one. I don't normally. But he was 31:00wearing a head covering up on that beach, and someone saw him and knocked him out. So, he stopped wearing a head covering. And as the years rolled by, he was not so religious, but he was always very strongly imbued in Jewish philosophy and really beautiful concepts to do with the religion. Not to do with dogma, but more to do with the humanistic points of view underneath the religion and the really nice stuff and the meanings behind stuff that sometimes people forget about in their quest for keeping every ritual. And my mother, she had -- wow. The Yiddishkayt with her has something to do with temperament. It's this strong -- she's really strong, strong, strong Jewish mama. Crazy, I'm always joking and say, if my mother was in charge of a football team, I think they'd win every single game. She's a really -- she's a real big presence. Someone who walks in a room, everyone goes, Who's that? Not physically big -- I mean, she's short -- but big energy. And yeah, then my grandfather and grandmother -- I guess Yiddish 32:00language that I heard a bit, just tiny bits from a very young age, that was an influence. It was really just family, actually. It certainly wasn't school. Maybe, maybe a tiny bit from violin teachers when I was younger, a couple of Russian-Jewish violin teachers. First one, his name was Borowitz. This was when I was the age of seven. And he couldn't pronounce "D." For D strings, he'd say "D." (laughs) It's a little thing, you know? The next teacher's Sam Padjowski. He's a very -- he was really special. It was because of him I went to conservatorium, to the weekend classes and youth orchestra. He had kheyn, a nice feeling, you know? And then, maybe the only other thing I can suggest that was 33:00maybe helping with Yiddishkayt was in the more religious Jewish school I went to, up to the age of about ten, was we used to have a class -- I remember this -- once a week, I think? And we'd sing all these songs, some Hebrew songs and some -- and these songs from the '60s and then some -- a few Yiddish things, like old -- well, just a couple. But I loved this. This is crazy, but the lady who led this -- with, like, hundreds of kids. It was not like she was with each individual kid. Her name was Lena Sidorovich, and she passed away a number of years ago. But towards the last years of her life, I was playing in an old age home, or social club, and she came up to me, and she was -- really held -- I think 'cause of what I was playing -- she really grabbed me. And for several years, I was going to her house and visiting her. And she would -- we were 34:00working on some Hebrew, but actually it was really just an excuse to sit with her and talk. She was a survivor from Poland. And she was -- yeah, there's something also from her, like a -- when a young age, when I didn't know (UNCLEAR) and I was one of hundreds of kids going "La, la, la, la, la," singing songs, to -- I can't remember when it was. I think late twenties when she passed away. And so, for three years or so, I was gonna go visit -- I was visiting her quite regularly, just sitting with her and giving her some company and letting her teach me some Hebrew and tell me some of the stories from the war. Yeah. It was this sort of combination where the Yiddishkayt comes from. And then, stuff from within, I think.

AI:What about Berlin? What did you discover in Berlin?

DW:In Berlin? Berlin's fascinating. In Berlin -- well, Karsten is a good friend 35:00of mine -- a very, very close friend of mine. My connection with Karsten is --

AI:How did you meet him?

DW:Yeah, this is -- I was gonna get to this. This is a classic Weltlinger crazy story that always accompanies everything. My mother saw a film -- I think it was, like, 2006, something like this -- maybe earlier, 2005? I can't remember. It was a film about klezmer and Yiddish music. And Karsten was in this film. And I was already going to Germany from the year of 2004 because I had a friend of mine I'd met several years before in Sydney, who is Sinti -- he's Gypsy -- and his name's Lulo Reinhardt. So, I was already going back and forth to Europe to visit Lulo and his family, who I became very close to on the first visit. They 36:00have a big family, related to Django Reinhardt and Schnuckenack Reinhardt. He was a wonderful violin player in Germany back in the day. And it's -- big traditional Gypsy family, lot of musicians. And the family officially adopted me from day one. So, I was going every year. My mother had seen this film with Karsten and was besotted by Karsten's singing. And she harped me to go to Berlin to visit him and -- because she wanted me to go pay my respects. And the thing is that she had made contact with a man who for only some several months was acting as a culture agent for Karsten and for another singer Suzanna and a whole number of people who I today work with a lot and am very close to. And because mum is in Australia -- this was the days of MySpace -- she somehow or other found this culture agent, and she wrote to this guy, and he didn't want to send her CDs 'cause it's so far away, so he gave us some free tracks and MP3s. And 37:00she was so stunned and amazed by this that she begged me and harped me to go to Berlin to buy CDs from Karsten and say hello and get some signatures, et cetera. So, I met Karsten, I don't know, 2006, I think. I think it was this year. And then, I came back and forth to Berlin a couple of times. I think he came to the concert which I did with Lulo in 2009, something like this. We did a concert in Neukölln. And it was a nice connection. And then, I was on tour in Berlin four years ago with a -- electronic music band, hip-hop beats mixed with record scratching and turntablism and keys and violin. It's a really wonderful band. Been developing for about ten years. We've been working on an album for eight years. It's called Asthmatix. It's a really special band. And we were on tour in Berlin. And I'd never really liked Berlin so much, and then staying in Berlin -- in Verlin (pronounces with "v" sound) -- for several months I met all these great, interesting, innovative musicians and artists in this area. And I was in 38:00a bit of a personal crisis too because a long relationship had ended, and I was thinking, Where am I going? And at this point, I'd been coming back and forth to Europe for ten years and playing with Lulo and playing a lot with many Sinti friends and playing a lot of Gypsy swing in Europe for several months each year. And I hung out with Karsten too, and I was there four years ago. And then, I just made the decision to see what it would be like moving to Berlin. And then, in the years that I've been in Berlin, Karsten and I became extremely close. And it became even closer -- the way we became crazily close is that I had a nasty mishap in the place I was living at in Wedding. And to cut a long story short, I had a broken ankle, and I was trapped up six flights of stairs. And Karsten came to visit me with my broken ankle -- this was two years ago -- and said, "No, no, 39:00no, you can't stay here like this." So, I was then parked at his place for three or four months. And as a result of that, we made a couple of CDs, 'cause he was recording music with his piano player, and I was just trapped there with a broken ankle, like -- like this. (laughter) Yeah, then I recorded these two albums, recorded these beautiful Yiddish and German lider [songs] of all these great songs. And in this time, we've just been doing more and more and more and more together. And it's special, this whole scene. It's in some ways similar to people I play with in Sydney for a long time, people from European backgrounds and Russian and Hungarian and Ukrainian and German and Jewish -- everything. It's a similar European thing. And it's very, very familiar and very warm. And what I love is the connection to the rural history and the connection to the 40:00love of the language and the love of the humor and the khutspe [insolence] and the -- it's just real. There's nothing put on about any of it. There's no trying to be anything. It's just absolutely real. It's really special. I love it. And it's a very close, wonderful, warm, family connection. And as a result, actually, of staying at his place for three or four months because of the ankle crisis, his ex-wife, Korona, who he's very close to, who lives very close by to him, had a spare room. And so, I've been for the last year and a half living in this big, nice room at her place. So, it's entirely in the family now. Yeah. (laughs) I'm in the thick of Yiddishland.

AI:I would like to ask you more about your professional work. Tell me more about your violin education and --

DW:My, sorry, what?

AI:About your violin education and how did you became a professional music 41:00performer. 'Cause it's --

DW:It's not easy.

AI:-- entirely different world.

DW:Yeah. I did a lot of classical training -- a hell of a lot of classical training. And I played a lot of orchestras, youth orchestras. I was a bit naughty. I used to always do the wrong bowings and get in trouble with the conductor. I remember the conductor distinctly saying, (spoken in accent) "Daniel, I'm going to shoot you." 'Cause I was always doing the wrong bowings. But somehow I always -- I was weird. As a kid, I was really wayward. I would always do stuff not what you'd expect. I played once, I think, a concerto with all these runs with one finger. I got failed for it, but my teacher was laughing because she thought no one else would do something so crazy. Played it correctly, mind you, but with one finger, which is totally wrong, according to what you're meant to do. But I still trained very hard in classical music. I somehow or other managed to finish a bachelor of music in classical. But I 42:00trained very hard. And good thing is I did a lot of stuff in bow technique. 'Cause bow techniques, in terms of playing your instruments, is a pretty big thing. It gives you a lot of power. It's really the right hand. And it gives you a lot of the strength to play. And then, this is less movement. Because I was in two worlds. Okay, so there was this classical world where I trained, and this is good for your playing, but there's also the folk -- you know, some of these folk traditions that I'd pretty much grown up with hearing stuff as a kid. So, I'd done a lot of classical training, and then in my first year at music school at the conservatorium, I fell into bands. I put up (laughs) a violinist looking for work sign at a laundry on a street called Hall Street in Bondi. And I got a random call while I was away from a guy named Yaron, which sounded to me like a 43:00-- at first I thought, Oh, no, it's gonna be an Israeli backpacker wanting to play kumbaya music. But no, it was this quite highly strung South African guy who wanted to play some music together. We've been good friends ever since, but that was the first spark that led me to start playing in bands, and it just sort of snowballed from there. So, with Yaron we had a band, and it still -- I still occasionally play in, called Monsieur Camembert. But there's all this other stuff I've done -- since then, I've played in a thousand different bands. Played with a very good friend of mine, Nadya Golski, in Australia. And she's got a band called the 101 Candles Orkestra. It's like a East European, Gypsy-style band. There's a few actual Gypsy guys in there, Roma. But Australian. They're Serbian Roma. Yeah, also, I just seem to constantly come across people in 44:00unusual ways, and -- yeah, just one thing leads to another thing leads to another thing leads to another thing. People always say to me, How did you learn to improvise the way you do and do what you do? And my answer is, quite frankly, that I just play so much different music. And I just end up learning a lot of stuff from the bandstand, playing with older musicians, often playing in difficult circumstances -- never really easy. It's often stuff which I had to just quickly learn what to do. I learned how to improvise -- well, how to play some -- how to transcribe jazz from a trumpet player in the band. He showed me how to just simply write the note-- just noteheads and copy solos and how to do swing. But it was all stuff that just got passed on here and there, just tidbits here and there, and quickly learning something, Okay, this is what I do, learning something else and -- (UNCLEAR) on the fly, a lot of stuff on the fly. 45:00So, that was on top of the classical stuff. And I think that combination plus the whole crazy family background, everything together sort of starts jumbli-- starts making sense in the head and comes out this way.

AI:Tell me, I'm just curious to know, when you play Jewish music -- or Yiddish, rather -- the one which reflects your identity -- do you feel a bit different than when you play any other music?

DW:Ooh. That's a good question. (sighs) Do I feel different playing Jewish music? Um -- no. Not at all, actually. I think if I'm playing -- no, not at all. If I'm playing music that's written, like specific -- let's say classical music 46:00-- it's a different headspace because I want to play with really -- (laughs) you want to play it really, really right. But I think what's absolutely across the board the same with me is that I'm always looking for what sounds beautiful, and I'm just playing myself. I have a deep love of harmony and of jazz -- and the reason why, actually, is that I think that it's a really great vehicle for making sense of a complicated background. It can be also protests, because there's a lot of things to scream and shout about, which you can do with music in a beautiful way, but also it's a good way -- form of expression --because it's -- you can mix the folk with the jazz, and it makes sense. Because it is complicated, you know, and it can't just be summed up in some cliché -- my own background, it's complicated. There's no one single way to describe what I am or 47:00how I feel. And the thing is, I'm always looking for what's beautiful-sounding. I'm always thinking in terms of the pitch fitting in at any given moment. It's not like a (spoken in mechanical voice) specific pitch that has to be 440. No. It's what fits in. It's like, the style (UNCLEAR) fits into the right place. And if there's a mistake or something that's not right, just quickly try and fix that. And with the Jewish music, that just flows. I don't know. I haven't sat down and -- I should sit down and learn a whole lot of tunes. I've been saying this for ages. I was always like, I should sit down and just learn a whole lot of repertoire. It's not so hard. And learn some of the specific trills. But what I play is just entirely from what I feel.

AI:I think it's a good moment to ask you to play something for us.

DW:Sure. Yeah, I'm gonna play this song. I played it earlier in the café, but 48:00the reason why is because -- speaking about the Yiddish, my mother started singing recently, in front of people, just the last few years. And we did a concert just several weeks ago. The first time proper, official concert together, which was a huge thing. And I've always grown up with her singing. This influence, of course, just like my grandfather playing violin. Of course it is. I mean, you hear this your whole life. I mean, when I was in her belly I would have been hearing this. And this song was one of the first songs I had heard her sing in the last few years. And the way she sings it is -- oh, it's just beautiful. It was really lovely. So, I've just got that in my head since I played that. We were sitting in a café, and I played this tune, and the lovely girl sang it. So yeah, I'm gonna play this. In light of the Yiddish music. (plays violin) [00:49:00 to 00:52:05] There you go.

AI:Do you remember --

DW:It's a little something.

AI:-- do you remember any melody from your grandfather's time?

DW:Melody from my grandfather's time. [BREAK IN RECORDING] He always played liebeslied [German: love songs]. But he played lots of other stuff. I mean, he played csárdás as well. I'll play a couple of things. (plays violin) [00:52:25 to 00:52:29] -- of course -- (continues playing violin) [00:52:30 to 00:54:15] 54:00 53:00--- I can't play that whole thing -- otherwise I have to go -- (continues playing violin) [00:54:18 to 00:54:31]. (laughter) It's a long song. It could go on forever.

AI:When you play, in what type of music do you feel most comfortable?

DW:Most comfortable? Well, I definitely like the Gypsy swing music a lot because -- this makes sense -- 'cause it combines so much the feeling -- this style of playing these songs really very similar to what I heard as a kid. Like, okay, they're old tunes, but they're played a certain way, and it fits in. Even when I 55:00heard for the first time the old Grappelli recordings, the sound is crazy. It's really like my grandfather, especially in later years. Not so much the you-- the old years I can feel this too, but in the later years, it's a really similar feeling to my grandfather. What else? I have a definite natural affinity towards music from particularly Romania. I don't know. There's some connection somewhere. And the Hungarian -- some aspects of Hungary/Romania's border region, there's some family there -- there's some connection for me for there, I'm sure. 'Cause I just feel it directly. I put some trills in. I know I'm -- the way I'm playing music, it's not thought out a lot of the time. It's not deliberate. If you -- I try and get the -- the only deliberate thing is the intonation, is trying to get the pitch in tune because it's nice to have the pitch in tune. But 56:00everything else is -- it's pure instinctive. It just comes out naturally. So yeah, that's where I feel the most home, and the Yiddish fits in there as well, of course, 'cause I can mix these influences in. And because I like not just doing the old stuff, I like throwing in some modern twists, like sounds of -- a bit of a harmonic twist somewhere, just a little tiny thing. Subtle.

AI:Can you give us an example?

DW:Give you an example? Okay. [BREAK IN RECORDING] My grandfather played also, like -- (plays violin) [00:56:43 to 00:56:47] -- I always remember these (continues playing violin) -- but this style -- (continues playing violin) [00:56:54 to 00:56:53] -- I mean, really salon style -- (continues playing violin) [00:56:38 to 00:57:02]. Like that. (plays violin) [00:57:04 to 00:57:35] 57:00-- like that, you know? (laughs) Now, that's exactly the kind of thing I grew up with, actually, just the way I played that melody. It was exactly like that. I'm just feeling it naturally from what I heard as a kid.

AI:Performing artists have historically played an important role in what is often referred to as the revival of the Yiddish culture.

DW:Um-hm.

AI:Do you feel that you are part of this today?

DW:Yes. That's a bit for-- (laughs) that's a bit -- "Yes." (Ilwicka laughs) Yeah, sure.

AI:You know, we live in a time when often people claim that Yiddish is dying (UNCLEAR) --

DW:No, not at all. Not true.

AI:-- things like that.

DW:No, not true at all. And it's not just up to the people who are reviving it who are keeping it alive. It is kept alive anyway in small clumps by people. They're people you never hear about, who keep speaking Yiddish or who might play some tunes, especially from former Soviet Union countries like Ukraine and Moldova and other places. I think it's gonna take a long time to, let's say, make Yiddish more widespread. It was spoken by millions and millions of people, and then that suddenly was cut, completely, really like the umbilical cord cut. 59:00It was completely and utterly cut. And so, I think it's a very big slog ahead to bring Yiddish to more people. But, I mean, this is to be expected. It's several generations ago that such horrible things happened in Europe, and so much was destroyed. So very much was destroyed. So, to pick up all the pieces and make things together again will take some time. But I think -- but I'm a big believer in not making music of the past museum pieces, but making them alive. Not necessa-- you don't need to recreate note-for-note perfect the music from before. Do you know? We live in the twenty-first century. It's 2016. The feeling from before, I carry. It's good to have some knowledge of some specific basics, but I think the inspiration and the essence is extremely important. And that's 60:00what you have to carry forward. And that spark is what makes people get inspired or want to know more about it. I think so. And the language? This is tough. This will take some time. But when people see something that hits 'em in the heart, this always drags people in. Do you know? So, if you play from the heart and if you inspire people, that helps to bring it -- everything back alive again. Like magic fairy dust.

AI:Do you consider yourself as an activist?

DW:That's an interesting question too. Oh, wow. (laughs) Yes, I guess I am. Yeah, I am. I don't -- well, I don't know. I don't consider myself an activist. I would never call myself an activist. That's a better answer. I use music to 61:00the best of my abilities to heal people. And it is absolutely something I'm giving. Of course, it also helps me too. But it's something I'm giving, from here. And it's a way of communicating, I guess, a gentle and also strong understanding of what makes -- what's common between people, what's a leveler -- when you have the right attitude to music. Not everyone has the right attitude to music. Some people use music to propel their egos. Some people use it for some silly political or ideological reason. I have no interest in this whatsoever. I have no agenda. I use music to -- any social commentary's really just to make people aware of what's in common. And also to have a love of 62:00difference, a love of culture, a love of intricacy, a love of subtle complexities. Do you know? Not some simplistic cliché. It's not nationalistic. It's a beautiful mix. That's what it is for me.

AI:You also work as a teacher. And being a teacher, what sort of challenges or pressure, if any, you feel?

DW:Challenges and pressure?

AI:Yeah. When you are a teacher, you know --

DW:Okay.

AI:-- you not only pass the knowledge of technical stuff, but it's also about who you are, and the whole background. Do you also pass this into your students?

DW:I like teaching. I find that -- I try and find -- I try and help students -- 63:00I try and steer them away from being lost, for starters. 'Cause often people are like, (spoken in sad voice) Who am I? Where am I going with music? All this stuff. And I always veer them towards just feeling good about themselves and having a sense of, Well, you are who you are, and let's just delve into who you are, and don't try and copy someone for the sake of copying. Just go with what feels right, feels good. And also to focus on using your ears a lot. I think it's important to listen and to be open-minded, basically. And technical stuff too, yes, of course. I show some -- quite a good understanding of techniques. I can share all the tricks of the trade. And I've learned a thousand tricks with violin, all sorts of instruments, how to get around, no problem. But in terms of being able to express yourself, it's important individual expression and what -- 64:00how to think. It's very psychological, how to think. It's amazing how many people don't know about how to express themselves. They want to, but they can't seem to get past that block. So, when I'm teaching, I try and help out as best I can with stuff like that.

AI:Have you ever had meaningful experience as a mentor?

DW:Sorry?

AI:Have you ever had a meaningful experience as a mentor?

DW:As a mentor?

AI:Yeah.

DW:(sighs) Often. But I can't think of any specific ones at the moment. But I guess that's because it's been quite often I've taught -- I've taught -- actually, one of my closest musician friends, who lives in Australia, and is in this project Asthmatix as well as a few other things -- he's a piano player -- I 65:00originally was teaching him in a small ensemble when he was sixteen years old. We've been friends for about sixteen years. No, more. Eighteen years. And yeah, I've had lots of teaching experience. I've taught in the classrooms, I've taught individual students, I've taught some groups. I've found teaching the really young kids, this is not my forte personally. I've had fun with the really young kids, but this is really specific. To teach really young kids, it's like, kindergarten teaching, you really have to know all the games to keep their attention. And everyone's distracted by technology and by a lot of things. (UNCLEAR) can be outside in the sun playing football or -- you know, normal. So, to maintain people's attention is sometimes a little bit difficult. But yeah, in terms of meaningful exchanges, human exchanges are meaningful in general. It's 66:00so numerous the amount of times I've had a nice experience with students or nice conversations, nice interactions, I can't actually remember 'cause it's so much, quite frankly. I hope that answers the question.

AI:Sure. You're living in Europe because you had been visiting Europe for so long, but now you're more here. Do you observe any trends or changes, visible changes, in the Yiddish-related art field?

DW:That's an interesting question. Can I answer this? (laughter) Yeah, I do. I can understand -- I mean, I like very much that there's a revival of the Yiddish language.

[BREAK IN RECORDING]

DW:Trends in the Yiddish world today? I think that there's a lot more politics involved in the Yiddish world today. And I sometimes think that the politics of a hundred years ago, when there was really incredible things going on in the world, and this caused enormous -- this was a lot of what caused -- these shocking things that happened in Europe was these enormous ideologies were clashing head-on in ways -- clashing against one another. And you see this in Berlin. It's still, even to this day, a bit of a catastrophe. It's just a big mess. I mean, it's wonderful to live in it, it's been chaotic and anarchic, and my own life is a bit unintentionally anarchic. It's sort of funny. This sort of existence is endlessly hapless. And I find Berlin creative, but the result of ideology and hardened ideology is problematic every single time, without fail. 68:00And I think that with the music, I think it shouldn't be political. I think that the Yiddish music -- it's about conservation more than anything. That should be the focus. The focus should be a hundred percent on the conservation of the old stuff that's been lost, not politics. And it should be -- and the focus should be on picking up the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle, the shards of glass (UNCLEAR) that have been destroyed, making it beautiful again and creating cohesiveness between people. People are always searching for some silly sense of national identity that's nonexistent, and so -- the same thing happened a hundred years ago. People think that -- they have this simplistic cliché about what it means. And it's never really a black and white thing; it's very gray. And the thing with a lot of music is that it's -- I mean, Yiddish music, it depends which region you're talking about, which country. Just like in Europe, up to this 69:00point, up to this day, you've got different regions, different dialects, different foods, different traditions, et cetera. Same with Yiddish. They were influenced by different regions. And it was a two-way street. The local region would have influenced Yiddish; Yiddish would have influenced the local region. And it's the same from thousands of years ago. Jews were in -- throughout Europe as part of the Roman Empire, they influenced different areas. It's the same. So, this separation that goes on I think is no good. And too much trying to revive the old politics from a hundred years ago, I think, is not necessary. It's a different time. It's more important to focus on all that was lost and destroyed and making -- bringing this into heart. This is very important. It's necessary. And just creating togetherness like that. Ideology always creates division. That's one thing that's for sure. It always creates division. It's unnecessary.

AI:What do you see as the future of Yiddish?

DW:Future of Yiddish? I would say that Yiddish will never be what it was before. It's impossible. Because of the reality that is the state of Israel. And the state of Israel is a necessary thing because of the reality of anti-Semitism in the world, and also because of the Hebrew language, which is the unifying factor in everything. That is what everyone forgets every single time. The one thing that you will find in Israel and in Palestinian territories, regardless of borders -- just forget that for one moment -- the one thing that you will always find is the Hebrew language. That was what Yiddish was written in. That's what Ladino was written in and is written in. It's what Yiddish is written in. It's what the Mizrahi Jews used. It is across the world. Torah is what carried across 71:00the world. Jewish people are taught in kheyders [traditional religious schools] to read and write in Hebrew. It is what it is. That language has been constant. With Yiddish, it was the language of the European Diaspora. And today, of course, in Europe, there's not such a big Jewish population. You have many people in America who come from Yiddish-speaking families, from up to six generations before. In Israel, you have many people who came from Yiddish-speaking families in Australia. And so, the people left speaking Yiddish are not so many. But there is -- I would say that there'll be a core in the future, a core of people who speak Yiddish. From the global population of Jewish people, I think most people can speak Hebrew -- which is fine. But then, I think 72:00the important thing is that the Yiddish is continuing, it's not destroyed -- which it isn't anyway -- but that that core grows. And more importantly, that the music, the music of Jewish people, is revived. I think that's important. Or the essence, the feeling. 'Cause something that is problematic in the globalized world is that on the one hand, it stops borders, which is actually not a bad thing, because borders is also what creates tensions. People don't know about one another. But the flip side is that it makes everything the same. And this means that the old, beautiful stuff gets crushed in the process. And the trick is to find the balance between this hyper-connected world and maintaining the old, magical stuff. And that speaks of what I aspire to, am interested in. So, for the future of Yiddish, I would say that if the people are maintaining 73:00Yiddish music and culture, that's smart, and that's what the future will be, it will be a smart balance. I think anything that distracts from that goal, whether it's ideologies or some political thinking or I don't know what -- or ego, which is a disaster. If you use your ego -- if you're using music simply to propel your ego -- that happens a lot -- this is a disaster. 'Cause this is destroying the -- this is -- intentional or unintentionally, it destroys the music, I think, personally. I think the goal has to be conservate [sic] stuff in a smart way. And then, there's a future.

AI:We are nearing to the end of our time, but I would like to ask you if you would like to play something else from the unique world which is (UNCLEAR) the treasures of the heritage?

DW:Okay. I can play one more piece. [BREAK IN RECORDING] (plays violin) [violin 74:00- 01:13:59 to 01:14:02] (laughs) My grandfather. (continues playing violin) [01:14:04 to 01:16:05]. Yeah.

AI:Thank you.

DW:You're welcome. (UNCLEAR)

AI:A sheynem dank [Thank you very much]. My last question is what advice do you have for aspiring artists or future art generation?

DW:(sighs) My advice? Always play from the heart. Make sure it's from the heart, not to do with what people expect you always to do. That's important. People always seem to be aspiring to others' expectations. Work. Don't be lazy. It's really important to be focused on your music, to care about the music you're playing, not to just be careless and just play -- Yeah, well, I'll do whatever. No, care about it, you know? Okay, if you don't always practice so much, just at 77:00least care about what you're doing. And be open-minded, also, I'd say. What else can I say? Yeah, there's a -- maybe a lot of people try and make music that is trying to appeal to everybody. That's an aspect of today's commercial world, that everything's commercial and about selling. That's an aspect of music and music business, but I think it's very important to not let that override the whole point, which is to play music and to make a difference, to play from the heart, and to make -- inspire people, and to create, and to -- this is the point. Never lose sight of the point.

AI:A sheynem dank. A hartsikn dank [Thank you very much], also on behalf of the Yiddish Book Center's Wexler's Oral History Project.

DW:Pleasure.

AI:Thank you for your time.

DW:Pleasure.

[END OF INTERVIEW]