NATALIE BLOCH LANGNER ORAL HISTORY

CHRISTA WHITNEY: This is Christa Whitney, and today is May 24th, 2017.  I am here in Manhasset, New York with Natalie Bloch Langner.  We're going to record an interview as part of the Yiddish Book Center's Wexler Oral History Project.  Do I have your permission to record?

NATALIE BLOCH LANGNER:   Yep.

CW:  Great.  So, we want to start with this song.  Do you want to introduce it?

NL:  Yeah, so this song is called "Tumbalalaika [Play the balalaika]."  It's an old Yiddish folk song, and here it describes that, before proposing, a young man questions his bride's wisdom.  He calls to the balalaika -- it happens to be a guitar-like instrument -- and it's a happy song.  So, my grandmother 1:00taught it to me, to teach in the Sunday school.  When I was sixteen, I taught in the Sholem Aleichem schools -- folk songs and folk dances.  And this was one of the songs that -- the melody is very popular.  So I'll just sing it for you, a capella, without guitar.  (singing) "Shteyt a bokher un er trakht,/trakht un trakht, a gantse nakht./Vemen tsu nemen un nit far shemen,/vemen tsu nemen un nit far shemen?/Tumbala, tumbala, tumbalalaika,/tumbala, tumbala, tumbalalaika,/tumbalalaika, shpil balalaika,/tumbalalaika, freylekh zol 2:00zayn./Meydl, meydl, kh'vil bay dir freygn,/'Vos ken vaksn, vaksn on reygn?/Vos ken brenen un nit oyfhern?/Vos ken benken, veynen on trern?'/Tumbala, tumbala, tumbalalaika,/tumbala, tumbala, tumbalalaika,/tumbalalaika, shpil balalaika,/tumbalalaika, freylekh zol zayn./Meyden, meyden, kh'vil bay dir freygn" -- no, sorry, I'm going to go into "Narisher bokher," the third verse, already.  Sorry about that.  (singing) "Narisher bokher, vos darfstu fregn?/A shteyn ken vaksn, vaksn on regn./Libe ken brenen un nit oyfhern./A harts ken 3:00benkn, veynen on trern./Tumbala, tumbala, tumbalalaika,/tumbala, tumbala, tumbalalaika,/tumbalalaika, shpil balalaika,/tumbalalaika, freylekh zol zayn."  So, if you would like, I could actually read the translation to it.

CW:  Sure.

NL:  So, it says here, "A young man stands, engrossed in thought.  He thinks and thinks the whole night through.  Whom do I choose, and not break any hearts?"  And then it's the chorus, "Tumbalalaika, tumbalalaika."  And then the second verse is, "Maiden, maiden, I've questions to ask you.  What ca--" -- 4:00I love this line -- "What can grow without rain?  What can burn and not cease?  What can yearn and weep without tears?"  That's kinda sad, but it's supposed to be a happy song.  But I think that's why everything -- all the Jewish songs are in minor.  Always a little twang of sadness.  I guess it's sort of similar -- the Jewish version of country music.  Then, the third verse.  "Foolish young man, why do you ask?  A stone can grow without rain.  Love can burn and not cease.  A heart can yearn and weep without tears."  It's very beautiful, anyway.

CW:  Great.

NL:  So that's the song my -- my zeyde [grandfather] and my bubbie [grandmother] loved this song, so my bubbie taught it to me.  There you go.  And I would play it with my dad.  He would usually play it on guitar for me, but Miltie is in his house, and I'm in my house.  [BREAK IN RECORDING]

CW:  So, we're gonna mostly be talking about a particular person.  Can you just tell me who that person is, and how you're related to him?

NL:  Solomon Simon, who was my grandfather -- my zeyde, my mother's father.

CW:  And do you know when he was born?

NL:  The exact year I don't know exactly.  Turn of the century, I would imagine, like -- I think maybe, like, nine-- excuse me, 1895?  Am I right?

CW:  Yeah.

NL:  Bingo?

CW:  Yep, that's it --

NL:  Oh! (laughter)

CW:  So, 1895 --

NL:  Wow --

CW:  -- and do you know where?

NL:  -- that's amazing.  Oh, no.  Which town, exactly?  I get confused between the Vilna or -- no, which one?  I don't know the exact --

CW:  It's a small town.  Let's see here.

NL:  I got the year exactly, which is --

CW:  Kalinkavichy.

NL:  Yeah, okay --

CW:  Great.

NL:  -- Kalinkavichy, can't say I've been there.  No, not yet.

CW:  So what do you know, if anything, about his family?

NL:  Oh no, I feel like I didn't do my --

CW:  Don't worry --

NL:  -- homework (laughs).

CW:  -- don't worry.  That's fine.  Well, I want to s--

NL:  Yeah.  You know, I'll be honest with you.  My memories about my grandfather are pretty much about him.  That's what I can tell you the most, because I didn't -- there was an Aunt Rose, but I don't -- we didn't meet them.  And that might not even be on his side.  So I'm not gonna be able to give you accurate information about all the other family members, as much as I can about him.  Cause I remember him --

CW:  Can you --

NL:  -- very well.

CW:  Can you tell me what he looked like?

NL:  Yeah.  He had kind of dark blackish hair, with a mustache.  Greenish 7:00eyes -- greenish-grey eyes, which my mom got -- the gorgeous green-turquoise eyes.  And he actually -- oddly enough, even though he was a dentist, he used to like to smoke a cigar.  So he would smell of a cigar, and while he would smoke a cigar, he would have Juicy Fruit gum, to counteract it -- and hand out two really great things for your teeth: gum and tobacco (laughs).  So I remember that about him.

CW:  And how did he dress?

NL:  He used to like to wear suits of the period.  So, let's see, if I was ten, so I guess in the mid '60s, late '60s, he -- I remember him -- we -- I 8:00remember when I would go visit him in Brooklyn.  We would go -- when I would stay over at my grandparents' house, we would take a walk to the corner store to get three newspapers -- in English, Hebrew, and Yiddish.  And he would love to, every day, read three different newspapers.  And along the way -- another thing that stood out as a kid, which was very special, was -- he had, I guess, a friend who owned a jewelry shop, and I remember, when it would be birthday time -- my birthday being in September, and my mother, and my older sister Deena, too, as well -- we're all sapphires.  But anyway, he would say, "Pick out a ring that you like," and I remember it stayed with me my whole -- I do happen to love jewelry.  I've made some, I buy it, whatever.  I have from when I'm a 9:00kid.  But it was like my first piece of jewelry at ten, that he bought me a ring -- a sapphire ring in a heart shape.  I remember that about him.  I just thought it was so generous and loving.

CW:  What do you remember of the place where they lived in Brooklyn?

NL:  Well, it's where my mom grew up, and Uncle David and Mimi, and it was -- you'd walk in, and -- I remember it vividly -- the kitchen was in the back of the house, so when you first walked in, it was like the library area, if you will.  He'd have his desk in the front, by the window -- this is how I remember it.  And when we would have seders there, it would take up -- so there was really two rooms kind of in a rectangular shape -- deep.  And you'd have the 10:00first room and then the second room.  So whether it was a dining room and a living -- or maybe the living space in the front of -- and then the dining room closer to the kitchen.  But they would have a table the size of both rooms, and my grandmother would cook everything from scratch.  We would do Passover in -- my aunt and uncle would have to validate this -- but I remember it to go on forever, because I think we did it in English and in Hebrew.  Maybe even touches of Yiddish, too, but -- yeah, probably it was -- it went on for hours, the Passover seder, yeah.  And the kitchen was in the back.  And they were kosher, so there were the two sinks.  And then there was a basement downstairs, where my parents stayed when they were first married, which was apparently -- there are lots of good stories about that.  You might want to ask my father about that.  And then there was the upstairs.  And my grandparents' bedroom 11:00was to the front, by the window, and then there were -- I remember my mom's my room.  I actually remember it.  And I think there were maybe two additional rooms.  So it was either -- I don't think it was a four-bedroom.  I think it was a three-bedroom upstairs.  Probably my Uncle David had his own room, and then my mom, and Aunt Mimmie, being eight years apart -- maybe they shared the room.  It's probably how it was, yeah.

CW:  And what neighborhood was it in?

NL:  Flatbush, yep.

CW:  And so when would you see them?

NL:  Well, we would go -- I mean, my grandmother was the driver.  She would get in her white Oldsmobile, with the black interior -- no air-conditioning and (laughs), you don't forget that either.  And she would drive to come visit us, at my parents' house in Huntington, or we would go to them in Brooklyn.  And my 12:00grandmother was an amazing cook.  She used to make everything, like I said, from scratch, and bake, and so -- she was really a pretty hard-working person, along with my grandfather.  She read a lot and, you know, was a big fan of his.  But they could argue over almost anything.  Like whether you call -- I can't remember specifically, just, like, the most mundane things about cereal -- what was it? -- or Kleenex.  Whether you call a Kleenex a tissue or Kleenex -- is it a brand or is it a -- a tissue or a Kleenex, it was like, who cares?  So it would be, like, the little things, and they would just kinda go at it (laughs) -- I remember that.  But then they would make up.  They kinda had a nice little fiery, tumultuous inner change, my grandmother and grandfather.

CW:  And what was your grandmother's name?

NL:  Lena.

CW:  And what did she look like?

NL:  She was very beautiful.  She had -- actually, they say I got her hair.  She had very, very thick, but more auburn hair -- really beautiful color.  And she had hair with color, truthfully, through her 90s.  I mean, she had a little white, a little grey, but she still had some good hair going there.  And she also had, like, the greyish-green eyes, and -- there was a funny story -- I don't know if you want to hear it, but -- 'cause, again, these are passed-down stories.  But I think my grandfather either had a patient -- I'm not sure what the relationship was with this man -- who was learning how to do plastic 14:00surgery, and he wanted to do my grandmother's nose, and offered, I think, free of charge, to do her nose and my mother's.  And my mother was about seventeen, I believe, and my mother said no.  And my grandmother did it, and she did not tell my grandfather that she was gonna do this.  And she came home, like, black and blue and everything, and he was furious at her, that she went ahead and just did this, without discussing it.  That's pretty profound in those days, right?  Go ahead and change your nose without discussing it with your spouse.  I thought that was pretty intense, but my mom chose not to do it.  [BREAK IN RECORDING]

CW:  So I'm curious about what stories, or -- do you have a sense of what the 15:00-- what your mom's experience was, growing up with your grandparents?

NL:  You know, I think they were -- they had high expectations for education and learning.  One phrase that stood out -- I remember my mother saying, which I thought was very unusual, but -- apparently that my grandfather used to say, "Who said you have to be happy?"  And I thought that was a pretty intense thing to pass on to your children.  But that, apparently, was something that, you know -- that he said.  And she repeated it -- not that she believed that -- she didn't say it to us, saying, "You don't have to be happy," but that she grew up around that.  You know, there was a seriousness.  And they were secular, so, 16:00you know, that was always a little confusing to me -- that he was considered a learned, scholarly author, and yet he was also really supposedly not religious.  So I kinda -- the culture, the folk tales, you know, the Sholem Aleichem stories, which he dedicated to his grandchildren -- our names are in the book -- Deena, Natalie, Susan -- I always loved that.  I always thought that was so special.  And then he wrote another one, and included, I believe, Danny, Billy, and David, as well.  I'm not sure Michael and Andrew got included in those, 'cause they were much younger.  So, but yes, I believe all of us were listed there as, yeah, his grandchildren.  So -- but her experience growing up, I know -- you know, because my uncle was quite brilliant -- still is -- went on 17:00to college at sixteen, you know -- young -- to Cornell, and then Harvard.  And my mom had aspirations, too, of studying and working hard.  But I'm not sure that they had the same -- although she did go to social work school, obviously, at Columbia, so I think that that was acceptable.  It wasn't that she had to fight to do it.  But I know -- I think my aunt was expected to maybe go into education, which totally would not have been her choice.  So she made other choices.  But I think that they were -- you know, there was an expected level of learning -- a higher level of learning, and giving to the community -- that was a priority.

CW:  And, when you saw your parents with your grandparents, how would you 18:00describe their relationship?

NL:  Well, my dad used to fight with my grandfather a lot about politics.  You know, the Russian thing, and, you know, my father's mother also being from Russia, and his father from Poland -- Russia (UNCLEAR).  So, my father's views were much more socialist-type, and my grandfather, I think -- you know, such a self-made man, who, you know, not only did he become a writer, also a dentist, so -- and then my dad, coming back from World War II, with his G.I. Bill, and, you know, wanting to be a dentist.  So I think he -- he used to -- couldn-- my father lost his father when he was three, so I think my dad was kind of looking to my zeyde for guidance.  And I'm not sure why that would've been a difficult 19:00thing for my grandfather, to take my father in as a son, knowing my father didn't have his father.  But, you know, it's not always that smooth, so I think there were bumps in the road.  My father, I think, kind of admitted to maybe taking him on and being defiant.  But I think they just had different ways of looking at the world, at one point.  I mean, my grandfather was successful.  They lived in a nice home, and I remember my grandmother liked nice clothing, and she used to wear beautiful coats, and would buy my mom nice things clothing-wise.  And so I think that, you know, they used to s-- my mother and my father used to have this joke, like, that my father married up, cause he was from Brownsville, and my mom grew up in Flatbush.  And, you know, her father being a professional -- a dentist, and all that.  So, in fact, when my grandfather passed, I -- well, my bat mitzvah, from the Sholem Aleichem school 20:00-- it wasn't a traditional Torah learning, and all that -- I do that now, but -- and I sing in the choir now at my synagogue -- community synagogue in Sands Point, which I love, and I'm involved in a lot of different -- they have my grandfather's books there, and I do a mitzvah group -- chai mitzvah group -- and a sisterhood and, you know, like I said, I sing on the High Holidays, and I love it.  But my point in mentioning that is it's so different from my upbringing, and it was way more secular.  And so when my grand-- I was supposed to have my bat mitzvah in November, and then my grandfather passed -- I think it was November 8th, that he died -- that's the right day, I'm pretty sure -- so it got changed -- my date got changed to May 16th, which I thought was nice, cause my birthday's September 16th, so we had the number there -- the 16th -- and my mom really wanted me to write about my grandfather.  So I did -- I wrote about all 21:00of his accomplishments, and the different books he wrote.  And then I read it, and that was -- that was my bat mitzvah.  It was not very traditional, but it made an impact on me, and, you know --

CW:  Yeah, so to go back a little bit, what was the Jewish atmosphere that you grew up in?

NL:  Well, I think what my parents chose to do was continue a w-- much more secular-type upbringing -- the Jewish culture, the valuing education and learning, ideas being shared, discussion, debate, conversation -- that's how I associ-- that's my -- that was really the foundation for Judaism, for me.  One of my grandfather's brothers, I will say, d-- like, when my grandfather chose to come to America, which I wanted to comment about -- why I'm wearing red, white, 22:00and blue -- because he chose -- when they came over the boat, and they had to choose what day their birthday was gonna be, my grandfather picked July 4th.  Pretty amazing.  And my grandmother picked Christmas Day.  Amazing, right?  They knew how to pick it.  They picked the biggest days of the year, so --

CW:  And he was really patriotic?

NL:  He was really patriotic, so I wan-- this made me -- I was like, what do I wear today?  And then this just jumped right out at me, for the red, white, and blue, and I remembered July 4th being his birthday, and I was like, Oh, zeyde.  So, yeah -- so, growing up, I would have to say there was a lot of music, 'cause my dad playing guitar, and his mother singing, and had the most gorgeous voice -- that's where I feel I got my voice from -- more my father's side.  But my grandparents loved the music, and that -- my mom studied and played beautiful piano.  My dad says he married her because he always thought he'd get to have 23:00quartet -- duets with my mother, like he plays violin.  But she would play, but it wasn't really her thing.  So the music was a very -- my older sister and I would sing a lot, with my dad, but we're spaced pretty far apart, so I became the one to do most of the music, and I went into music.  So music was a very, very big part of our upbringing.  And, you know, the Jewish songs -- Yiddish, Hebrew.  And then -- I started to say -- so, my grandfather's brother, Binyamin, went to Israel when it was -- before it became Israel -- before it was -- when it was Palestine still -- so I think he was there before 1948, and bought land there.  And I always wanted to go to Israel.  My parents would never let me.  They had been a couple of times already, and my grandparents had been, but it was never safe enough for me to go.  I remember asking to go, when 24:00I was sixteen, and they wouldn't let me go.  Finally, when I graduated from the conservatory, I was either gonna go to LA, and pursue my music, or go to Israel.  And I chose to go to Israel -- with a one-way ticket -- because I was very curious about meeting my cousins there.  And that was an amazing experience, because I did get to meet my grandfather's brother, Binyamin, and Khanke, and then their two children, Aviva and Benyomen -- Bentsy -- they took me in like I was theirs.  Aviva and Asher, her husband -- I was like their fourth daughter immediately.  I just fell in love with them, and they were amazing.  And they took me all over Israel.  So I stayed with them just a week, and then I was on a kibbutz through the UJA.  And after I'd gone on the kibbutz for a little while, my dad networked my demo tape at the dental school, 25:00and this Israeli fellow with the same last name, Bloch -- he wanted to make a shidach [arranged marriage].  He had this guy look me up and make sure I was okay in Israel.  I got invited to the Passover dinner.  He had a cousin who was in the industry -- knew a band -- an international band, that needed a singer.  Hello, there I was, this singer from New York -- they took me in.  I got to go to Europe with them.  It was like a dream come true, and it was just amazing.  So, yeah.  And that leader of that band, which was called Afifon, which means "kite" -- he now is a cantor.  Yeah, and I learned he moved to the States, so I'd like to see him -- I'm getting back in touch with them on Facebook.  It's really cool.  So, yeah, pretty amazing.

CW:  So, how did you feel about being Jewish growing up?

NL:  Well -- and I just wanted to say, too, that my middle cousin -- I'm the 26:00middle, being in music -- Billy being the other professional musician in the family -- he and I met up in Germany.  I went -- years ago, when I went with the band, he was playing with the Nuremberg Opera House, and we -- I had -- with my band, we went to Germany -- we went to Berlin, Munich, Hamburg, Frankfurt -- and he was there.  So I got to see him there.  So, growing up, how did I -- what?  What about?

CW:  Oh, just what was -- what was your feeling about the Jewishness and your own Jewish identity when you were growing up?

NL:  Well, I felt it very strongly, and I remembered saying to my parents, at one point, too -- if being Jewish is so important, how come we don't live in a -- Jericho, or Plainview, or something -- or Roslin, where it's way more Jewish?  And their answer was, this is the house that we could afford (laughs).  So it made sense -- so I didn't know that many Jewish kids, 27:00actually, growing up in my neighborhood, right in Huntington.  I remember it being slim pickings, and I remember thinking, Wow, this is so important and (wordless sound).  And then, when I got to high school, they were just more at the other junior high, so I made some nice Jewish friends.  But, you know, for me, I have -- I go by the person.  Christianity, Jewish -- it's the person.  So I've always been like that.  And that's what I loved about the kibbutz in Israel, was that, you know, you have that combination there as well.  [BREAK IN RECORDING]

CW:  So, at what point -- if there was a point, that you realized that your zeyde was a writer?

NL:  Well, probably, like, right before my -- well, more younger, because -- I guess around eight or ten.  I mean, yeah, when I would be visiting -- they would always be discussing -- whether it was politics or just, even, "Fiddler on 28:00the Roof."  I mean, whatever it was that brought the Jewish content -- it was always a topic of conversation in the house, so -- I mean, we knew that he was busy writing, and --

CW:  Did you ever see him writing?  Do you have memories of that?

NL:  Hmm, I don't think so, no.  That's too bad -- that would've been kind of neat.

CW:  And you mentioned earlier --

NL:  I remember my mother writing.

CW:  Oh yeah?

NL:  Yeah.  And I remember them helping me with my writing -- my parents, both of them, and telling me that I was a good writer, and that they liked my writing.  I remember that, young.  That was a wonderful thing.  Yep, I still 29:00write, so, yeah.

CW:  And you mentioned earlier the library in your grandparents' house.  What do you -- do you remember anything --

NL:  A lot of books.

CW:  -- about the books, or --

NL: A lot of books.  I just remember there being a ton of books.  In fact, my husband told me that my grandfather's books were on the shelf in his house, and he had gotten them at his bar mitzvah.  So he knew of him before we met.  Just like he knew of my mom and her school, too, before we met.  That's a nice feeling, yeah.

CW:  Can you tell me about what your zeyde wrote?

NL:  Well, m-- I'm gonna be honest, that I wanna re-read all of his books.  The Sholem Aleichem ones are the ones that are more with the shlemiel and the 30:00shlimazl, and the silly stories, and all that.  Those are the ones that I keep dear to my heart.  I love comedy, so I give those as gifts as often as I can.

CW:  The "Helm" stories?

NL:  Yeah, yeah.  So that would be -- but "My Jewish Roots" I want to reread -- "In the Thicket" -- all of those.  Like, I would like to do a fresher take again, and reread.  I study also with a rabbi now -- Chabad -- in addition to my synagogue, and, you know, so different rabbis are quoted as scholars, and that kind of thing.  So at some point, I'm also hoping to kinda look to see what his scholarly contributions were, along -- cause it's kind of intimidating, 31:00to just randomly open up the book and say, Well, I'm gonna see what he said as a scholar.  Because usually, the way it's done is, you know, you reference it somehow to something.  So, like I said, I've been stud-- this is -- I started, in the beginning of the year, Torah law class, and they compare law as civil and Torah, and it's very interesting.  And now the topic -- that's done -- and now we're doing Israel.  And they constantly quote different rabbis.  And so my grandfather, being considered a scholar -- I'm kinda bringing it over there, saying, Hey, can we talk about this too?  Because it's nice to do it in a discussion, yeah.

CW:  Can you tell me about the -- what you like about the "Helm" stories?

NL:  I just think that there's that quality of laughing at yourself, and not 32:00taking life too seriously, and, you know, the whole idea of the fool and being fooled.  And I think that these are universal themes, and I think that the world would be a better place, truthfully, if we could all laugh at each other a little bit better, and at ourselves.  I think it brings a lot of brevity to situations, so -- yeah, it's kinda like the court gesture -- jester, if you will, with Shakespeare, almost.  Like, there's always the fool, and the making fun, and, you know, the idiot, if you will.  And it's just -- it's a -- feel-good -- it's a feel-good thing, so, yeah.

CW:  And so I wanna ask a little bit more about your mom.  So, can you just 33:00tell me a little bit about -- I don't know -- how you would introduce her to someone who didn't --

NL:  Oh, wow --

CW:  -- know her.

NL:  Who didn't know her?  Well, probably the first thing I'd say about my mother is that she was a powerhouse.  She had a vision to make -- and implemented it -- to make a difference in the world, in the lives of children in need, specifically.  And then it expanded into so many other kinds of programs.  But originally, her first thing that she really was passionate about -- I remember this, cause I talked with her about it a lot, I did -- was her idea for starting her school in 1966 -- which was Preschoolers' Workshop 34:00originally, where she started it in the basement of a church, with, like eight kids -- was that, if children are born with certain issues, and they didn't belong, let's say, in your normal -- quote, unquote -- setting, oftentimes they would be institutionalized, because they didn't have any other place for them to go, and people didn't know how to handle them.  So she had this idea of early intervention, and, in fact, one of the -- I'll just -- if I may digress for two seconds 'cause I wanna make a point of saying this -- that we were very fortunate, where our children benefitted from that.  Cause when they were three, they had a delay in speech, and that's very common with twins.  They're highly intelligent, but there was a concern, at one point, of a processing issue.  And I didn't -- it took the school district here -- this makes me look 35:00like a fool, but I'm not totally -- but the point being, I thought it was only for kids with schizophren-- who were schizophrenic or autistic, 'cause I grew up watching my mother do the documentaries since I'm eight.  I remember that vividly -- her bringing in all, like, the greatest world speakers, and -- but let me just get back to this.  She -- they also had programs for kids who just needed some speech and maybe a high-functioning language-base program.  So before my mother -- because our twins benefitted, and were in that type of a setting, before my mom retired, I raised forty thousand dollars with the women in my community here.  Thirty-two thousand of it went to her program for early intervention -- cause that's what our kids benefitted from -- and then the other eight went to diabetes, but that was something more that I felt the need to give back to her, to say thank you.  But my mom -- she felt very strongly about the 36:00need for early intervention.  And then it even went younger than one and a half, or three years old, to having babies evaluated, if parents had concerns.  Like, let's say your baby isn't responding -- giving eye contact or, you know, doing the appropriate things that they're supposed to do in their stages of development -- that they would have a place to go to be evaluated.  So she kinda kept expanding, as the years went on, and branching out.  And then I remember she started a program in Brooklyn for young teens -- mothers who didn't have any supports.  And then she started family groups -- that's how she started out, was as a family therapist.  And at one point, I remember, when I came back from Israel, I was either gonna go back to -- I was accepted for social work school -- my older sister being a clinical psychologist, I wasn't 37:00gonna go back and do all that, having been a performer.  And then I went -- I got a scholarship for my master's in education, so I did that instead.  And I still am perf-- pursuing the arts.  But she kind of always instilled, I guess, this connecting with other people, and caring about other people, and, you know, so -- yeah, she wasn't really an educator as much as she was an administrator, I think, and a writer.  You know, she has so many things published, and she was an -- she used to love that I would coach her when she spoke, 'cause she didn't like to speak, initially.  So I, having taken speech at the conservatory, would kinda coach her -- which was funny.  But, so, yeah, she was an internationally known speaker as well.  And, you know, she worked really, really hard.  It was 38:00everything to her.  And, you know, but she was one of my -- she was my biggest fan, I'm gonna tell you -- and my grandmother, and my father -- in my music.  So I miss her when I sing.  I really miss her.  I really do.  So she loved the musi-- it was actually one thing she couldn't do, was carry a tune, which always -- (laughter) I couldn't believe that.  She just didn't sing very well -- and she never thought she did -- but it was kind of funny, 'cause she was so good at everything else.  But it made her more human, that she couldn't do that.  And she used to do oil paintings, when she was very young.  She loved art, too, and painting, and folk dancing.  My parents had so much energy.  They'd come home from work, and then they would go out folk dancing, several 39:00times a week.  I thought that was amazing.  And they used to throw good parties, too.  They would have a lot of people over, all the time.  It was wonderful.  And my dad and I would always perform.  And her friends were great -- their friends were great.  I loved my parents' friends.  I was very, very, very connected to all of them.  And they loved the music.  Again, it always seems to come back to the music.  It was -- you know, music, and the food.  And my mom would have the family over a lot -- usually her side -- sometimes my father's side, but not as often.  I'd have to push for that.  They were not that compatible, but then they got better, over the years.  So --

CW:  Do you remember any specific holidays -- you mentioned Passover, but, what's your --

NL:  Thanksgiving.  My mom would usually do Thanksgiving.  And I remember, every five years -- 'cause my aunt went through a lot, growing up -- health 40:00issues and stuff.  So my mo-- I think my mother was an amazing older sister.  She used to have, usually, a birthday for her, every five years, on her big numbers.  So I remember that, too.  And, you know, we'd also have -- also, because Christmas day was my grandmother's birthday, we -- you know, what are the -- if you're not gonna have Chinese food, as a Jewish family -- which is the joke, but, you know, a lot of people do -- but we would always have big family gatherings on Christmas day, cause it was my grandmother's birthday.  So that was actually really nice, you know.  And she lived to be, like, ninety-six, I think.  So it went on -- I remember her ninetieth.  And I remember my grandparents' fiftieth anniversary, too.

CW:  What was that like?  What do you remember?

NL:  Well, I just remember getting a fancy dress for that, so, yeah.

CW:  What do you remember -- you mentioned a little about the fiery relationship between your bubbie and zeyde.  What else do you remember about their relationship?

NL:  Well, my grandfather was really kind of -- boisterous would be the word.  He was loud, and you kinda always knew he was there, when he was there.  He was not a quiet man.  As my grand-- as my mom would say, he was a presence.  So, you know, if he had something to say, he would say it, and he would say it in a very loud delivery.  So, yeah.  And I remember when he had his first heart attack.  It was awful.  I think it was -- he was in his -- he was young, he 42:00was like in his early 70s.  And then my grandmother had just gotten a condo in Miami Beach.  Yeah, it was awful.  And then when he got another one -- yeah, he had another.  I remember that heart attack, so -- it was a big change for the whole family.

CW:  And, so what was his relationship with you, when you interacted?

NL:  With me?  He loved children.  He was a very warm and loving grandfather.  I don't remember fighting with him ever, about anything.  He was just a very doting, loving grandfather.  That's how I remember him.  'Cause I -- you have to remember, I guess I was twelve or thirteen when he passed.  I think I was twelve, so I was really young.  But he ma-- I remember a lot about 43:00him, so he made quite an impression, yeah.

CW:  When you think of him, what comes to mind first?

NL:  Well, his accent -- his Russian accent.  And he was very proud to be an American, to have gotten here, and -- yeah.

CW:  Do you think that he -- his writings have an audience today?

NL:  I think that they definitely -- especially what's been going on with Russia again, I think that -- I think that the whole Russian history could definitely be revisited.  I know my grandfather came here to escape fighting in 44:00World War I -- the Cossacks and all that.  I know he di-- you know, the Jews were in ghettoes, so they didn't really feel that they had to be fighting for Russia.  So that was a big impetus to get out of Russia, and leave, and come here.  So I do believe that his books, somehow, ought to be looked at again.  I always thought there's a movie to be made, so it's great you're doing this (laughs) documentary.  It's wonderful.  Thank you.

CW:  Sure.  Thank you.  I wanted to ask about Yiddish -- we haven't talked about that.  So how -- did you hear Yiddish growing up?

NL:  Yeah, I mean I heard it.  I heard it -- my mom had a friend, Gella and Shikl Fishman.  And he was a scholar, Shikl Fishman -- I don't know if you're 45:00familiar -- Dr. Fishman -- and I saw them when I saw in Israel, in Jerusalem.  They were such fans of my grandfather.  I mean, they were like groupies -- that's no disrespect -- because they were quite scholarly.  So when they would come over, that would bring maybe another level of Yiddish.  But as far as our exposure to it, it was more like Yidishkayt.  Like, you'd get, you know, Yiddish words thrown in here and there.  I mean, I studied Yiddish at the Sholem Aleichem school, not Hebrew, so that was what I learned: how to read Yiddish.  And I can read it, but I don't -- I mean, I c-- you know, ikh farshtey a bisl, you know, I talk -- I understand a little.  I mean, and I use Yiddish words all the time, but kind of interspersed, like a "Seinfeld" 46:00episode.  My friend wrote for "Seinfeld," so we talk about the Yiddish words, you know.  I love that they're integrated more and more in the language, it seems.  There -- it's not forgotten, but, you know, clearly it's -- it's hard to keep it alive if people aren't speaking it, so the idea is to keep it fresh somehow.  So, even if you have the words, I think it's good, because it's become part of our language.  Some of the words are just now accepted as words in the English language.  So that's great.  So, the more we can keep that alive, at least.

CW:  And what -- did you read any of your zeyde's stories with your kids?

NL:  Oh, yeah.  I used to read them as bedtime stories with Sophia and Jeffrey, the twins.  Yup, so --

CW:  Do you have any favorites of the stories?

NL:  Oh, I don't know.  I'd have to go back and give you that.  [BREAK IN RECORDING]

CW:  So do you remember anything else from your bat mitzvah speech -- what you said --

NL:  Hmm.

CW:  -- about him, or what that experience was like presenting him?

NL:  I mean, I think you covered it, honestly.  We talked about it, and then I just -- I probably -- off the top of my head, I couldn't really add any more about his -- if you wanted to call it, his bibliography.  But I actually -- that's what I was doing.  I was naming all of his works, so, yeah.

CW:  So what's the impact he's had on you personally, if anything?

NL:  Oh God, yeah.  No, I mean, totally.  Well, they were very involved as grandparents.  So, I mean, you know, we got to stay with them.  They would come to us.  So their history -- where they came from and, you know, what he 48:00accomplished in this country.  It's tremendous, you know.  So -- no, he -- they instilled values of learning, and education, and community service, and morals, and -- I don't know, they -- for me, it go-- when I think of my family and my upbringing, it isn't just my parents.  It's my grandparents, too, and how lucky I was that they were that involved.  Not all grandparents give you that time.  So I think time is a gift.  And they were around.  They used to watch us -- my parents -- this is how I'm remembering it -- would take vacations, which is pretty amazing, 'cause, when we were raising our kids, both 49:00our -- all the grandparents were working.  So there wa-- really, I can remember one or two days that I got coverage, and otherwise it was paid help for nannies.  So my experience was very different for our children, growing up with the grandparents, unfortunately -- in that regard, it was not forthcoming, time-wise -- for whatever reason, whether it was work, or whatever it was.  But my grandparents were there a lot.  My parents, I think, were more involved as they got a little older.  And my in-laws, also (laughs).  So -- but my parents, you know -- they were definitely very connected, and we would see them.  We would go to their house and all, but it wasn't like they were coming over to watch the kids so we could go on vacation, or something like that.  50:00That never happened.  And I'm just saying my grandparents did that for my parents.  And whether it was financial, or just 'cause they wanted to, I can't -- maybe it was a little of both, yeah.

CW:  So is there anything else you would want people to know about your zeyde?

NL:  I think his idea of, you know, pursuing your dream, and working hard, and caring about family, and caring about the world in which you live, and caring about others, and making a difference -- are really great standards to live by.

CW:  Great.  There -- I forgot one thing.

NL:  Sure.

CW:  Did you ever go to the dentist?  Did you ever see him as a dentist?

NL:  You know, that's a great question, because I have a visual in my head of him as a dentist, but I think it's more from what my father told me, rather than me ever seeing it.  I -- cause I was at their house in Brooklyn, but -- I don't know why I, like, have this vision of the office b-- my father's -- got the G.I. Bill, and built his practice in Queens.  And the office was connected to the house, to the point where I can remember walking out, at five years old -- five and a ha-- greeting the patients and giving them a huge before they would go in and have their dental work done.  I didn't mind it, but my mother said, "I need a different setup.  See ya.  I'm moving to Huntington.  You can come, or not come."  Like, she couldn't stand it.  It was too close, like that.  My grandparents' house was much more of a self-contained, brick kind of, 52:00stand-alone -- well, no, I think it was attached.  They were townhouse -- they were attached, but it didn't -- you didn't hear the other neighbors or anything.  But this was my -- in my parents' house, you could hear the people -- I remember, you could hear the people in the waiting room.  And the reason why I know about that is 'cause I had gotten a scholarship to get my master's at Queens College, for education, and, my father's practice being on 164th and Jewel Avenue, he offered me the basement to live in.  And this was before he sold the practice -- like, he still had his dental practice there, but my parents bought a house in Huntington -- in 1964, I think it was -- still the house where my dad lives now.  But my point is that, yeah, I was dating my husband at the time, and I remember us being there.  And this was pretty funny, 53:00that the kitchen was upstairs, and we were in the kitchen in our bathrobes, and the buzzer got rung for the people to come into the waiting room (laughs) of -- that used to be where we lived, in that waiting room where the bedrooms were.  So we had to, like, scramble back downstairs to the basement in our bathrobes.  It was too close, and my mother was right to get out.  I don't know if I remember my grandfather's dental practice because my dad said what it was, but I don't think I ever saw it.  I don't think I did.  I'll have to ask him about that, yeah.

CW:  Great.  Well, thanks so much, Natalie -- a groysn dank.

NL:  Aw, thank you, wow.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

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