BENJAMIN CORIN ORAL HISTORY

CHRISTA WHITNEY:This is Christa Whitney and today is May 26th, 2017. I am here with Benjamin "Ben" Corin. Going to record an interview as part of the Yiddish Book Center's Wexler Oral History Project. Do I have your permission to record?

BENJAMIN CORIN:Absolutely.

CW:Great. Well, just some basics: so, where is your family from?

BC:Poland, to the degree that I know about, because they're Jewish, of course, and I assume that they didn't originate in Poland.

CW:And where were you born?

BC:In Poland, in Opatów, Poland.

CW:And do you come from a religious family background?

BC:Not really. I think they were -- my understanding is that every family was more or less religious. But today, I think that every family would consider the people of that time as very religious.

CW:And do you know what the professions in your family were?

BC:Not really, although my mother's family, and my father's, were comfortable in Europe. I think that the -- Lucy was a little -- did not say the fact that I believe her mother's parents were more than just comfortable. They were quite wealthy. I mean, I think she did not give the extent of -- when they lived they had an actual compound where the entire family sort of lived in this enormous 2:00compound. And we went to visit where they lived and what they did. And, of course, we had all the information about it before. It must have been, you know, very extravagant.

CW:And when did you come to the US?

BC:The background in this is that my father had run away from home. He was approximately fourteen years old. Took the money from his bar mitzvah and took money that you shouldn't, bought a ticket, and came to the United States. My grandfather came after him to bring him back home and my father told my grandfather that this, meaning the United States, is the land of opportunity. "This is where I'm going to live. I don't want to go back in Poland." You have to understand the background circumstances and that was that we lived on the 3:00Russian-Polish border. So, they were Polish one year and they were Russian the next year. But under that -- in that situation, you also had to understand that they were always Jewish. So, he did not like it. I inherited many aspects from both my parents, and one was that you sort of stick up for yourself. You do not get pushed around. You fight for your rights. And as my father picked himself up and went to the United States on his own, which today is unheard of -- and someone -- who would do that at age of fourteen? And with no help from anyone, he just did it and originally succeeded very well. And the way it came about that I was born in Poland is after my father got out of the army, of course he 4:00became a citizen immediately and I think the army was very good for him because he learned American ways very fast. He became Americanized almost immediately. When he did get out of the army, he went into business, he was unbelievably successful, and then went back to the Old Country where they brought out all of the women all of the beauties of every town. Here he is, a successful businessman, industrialist, and American war hero. And he's something like twenty-four years old or so. And he married my mother, who was a beautiful woman, who loved Lucy unbelievably. And when they got married, I wasn't there, so I can't tell you what the conversation was. She told my father that she's not coming back to the United States. She loved her life there, she loved her 5:00parents, she was very attached to them, and she was there. So, they stayed there maybe eight, ten years beyond when -- after they were married. So, my older sister was born there and I was born there. And then, I'm lucky in a way that they came to the United States. I did not -- who knows -- would have occurred?

CW:What was your father's business?

BC:He went into millinery, which is women's hats. And, of course, when women wore hats -- and they all wore hats -- he was very, very successful. The time came, like it does in every industry, there are cycles. And when they didn't, he then had a very, very difficult time. And I would come in even to help do whatever odd jobs that could help him at the age of twelve. So, I learned to 6:00work, all my life.

CW:What was Jewish about your home growing up?

BC:Nothing very special. I think we were very average. My father worked very hard. It was a period of time that his business was going down and he had to do other things and, of course, remained in that facet of -- in that industry. So, he basically had to give up many things to support his family. And I remember that. And one of the things I wanted to say, which is, to me, basic, my father-in-law died when I was eighty-eight and I thought, When -- eighty-eight, I'm going to then coast (laughs) in everything. But it isn't, and now, I'm older than that but I regret one thing with both people. And I say this all the time, 7:00this is my biggest regret, that I did not talk to my father more and that I did not talk to my father-in-law more. They both were very wise, smart people that I could've learned a lot more from than I did, doing the things that were -- going down to the block and talking to the guys. They were both wonderful people and I respect them enormously.

CW:Do you remember when you first met your father-in-law --

BC:Yes, I did.

CW:-- Aron Alperin?

BC:(laughs) And I think he liked me immediately. You have to understand Lucy had a lot of boyfriends, being a woman engineer with very few women. I think she was the only woman in the four years -- in City College, it took four, four-and-a-half, actually, if you took it at a normal pace. But Lucy was very 8:00good. She did it in three. She actually graduated a very tough engineering school at the age of nineteen. So, that was very incredible and I was impressed by it. So, that was a very, very nice thing. So, she had many, many boyfriends, I assume. She's told me some things about them but we're really talking about my father-in-law. And I think he liked me and he liked the fact, and I remember it -- and he asked where I lived and I said Herzl Street. You know, "Herzl Street?" I did not know what that meant. I didn't know who Herzl really was at that time. But that, to him, and I thought afterward, This is a sign to him from God, I think. (laughs) He really has someone coming from Herzl Street. But I think both my in-laws liked me immediately. I mean, sort of outgoing at times 9:00and an introvert more times than that but they liked me. But it was Lucy, the one who had to make that decision and her parents were good. But most important thing is that -- about my father-in-law, should I go right into that?

CW:Sure.

BC:Because that's who we really -- he was an individual who was very -- absolutely -- he never pushed himself to the forefront in anything, whereas most people did. If you wanted to talk about the fact that what he did in his profession, he was totally, completely honest. And although he had an opinion of people, if he didn't have a nice word to say about them, he said nothing. I 10:00never heard him really insult anyone. Everyone trusted him and everyone liked him. He was unbel-- you'd use the word "tsadik [righteous person]" now. Everyone liked him to an enormous degree. And he did -- I would come and he liked the fact that I would take him anywhere he wanted to go. So, I became a part of his life in going -- taking him to different places. For example, the seventh Lubavitcher rebbe, Menachem Mendel, Menachem would call my father-in-law and want to see him. And we would s--

CW:How did they know each other?

BC:Well, it started off -- it's really a long-term friendship and my father-in-law never really -- this is, these are among the things that I wish I 11:00had the opportunity to talk to him. I ended up knowing -- they were in Paris at the same time, but my father was the editor and in the forefront of a newspaper. Menachem Mendel was a student at the Sorbonne, and not matriculated at that time. So, I've had to do a lot of research. I've given some talks. Lucy always volunteers me to talk about -- but we're talking about --

CW:So, you would take him to visit Mendel.

BC:We would visit. Now, why would he want to see my father-in-law? Every -- a few times a year, and they would talk for one or two hours. All his disciples would go crazy because Menachem Mendel would see you for somewhere between three and ten seconds. He would see three thousand people in an evening. We would sit down and talk. And I was there, understanding when they spoke in English and 12:00then Yiddish and then French. And to make it palatable for me to understand him, he would say, "Talk to him, you know? The Lubavitcher is an engineer." But he really wasn't. And I learned a lot about him and I could tell stories about it but that's not what we're talking about, but -- and I had to understand, why did the -- Menachem Mendel want to see my father? My father -- my father-in-law. My father-in-law knew things. When he wrote, he wrote and Lucy was not -- did not elaborate as much and, possibly, I try to bring it up. He spoke about the conditions of Jews in every area of the world. He went there, he saw, that's what he wrote about. He loved, as Lucy said, three things, I try to say. I held up three fingers: his family, Jews, and Israel. That was his interest in his 13:00life. And he recorded it all. But he didn't give it anything of himself. He gave his knowledge and his understanding of what was happening and that's what he wrote about. So, if Menachem Mendel wanted to be wise and be able to discern and describe what's happening anywhere in the world, he called Ashik, which is what they called him. His name was Aron but they really called him Ashik because my mother-in-law called him Ashik. So, we emulated that and called him Ashik. And there are ripples to this. For example, and I'll tell it, it's sort of funny -- both my sons and I -- so, we're very close as a family and a great rapport. And I would try to tell them, "How do you make your decisions?" And they said, You 14:00have to follow Ashik's thinking. But what is Ashik's thinking? What Ashik's thinking is, What's good for the Jews? Now, Ashik's thinking is what's good for the Jews, how does that relate to yourself? Because what is good for you? How does it work out, when you're analyzing by a situation, going to make the decision, what is best for you? Going back to Hillel's, "If I'm not for me, who will be for me," et cetera, et cetera? So, that is -- all you have to do is a code word, what's good for the Jew-- you already know how you arrive and resolve a problem. So, there were many things of that aspect. But that also occurred and my father-in-law was a great friend and would take our children, when they're very young age, to see everyone and anyone. Then he would -- I have a tape and I'm -- keeper of things. I don't throw everything away, Lucy will tell you. 15:00Ben-Gurion, they went to Ben-Gurion's house and he was a good friend of everyone because they all liked him. He knew what was going on. And he would let you take, after he told it to you and now you expounded, he'd let you take the credit for it all and didn't try to take it back. He was just a good guy, to elaborate.

CW:So, he would visit Ben-Gurion?

BC:So, he knew everyone personally and everyone liked him from -- he introduced us as a family, my mother-in-law, Lucy, myself, et cetera, at every -- we went to all of the different meetings and he would always bring along -- he was always proud of his family and always introduced -- whether it was Moshe Dayan, whether it was Ben-Gurion, whether it was -- I'm trying to think, one person -- 16:00well, he wrote the book. He's like Chur-- the Israeli Churchill. What's his name again? Okay, I'll think of it as we go on, but --

CW:That's okay.

BC:-- so, and he would ghostwrite their biographies. And no one would ever know 'cause he never would take any credit. You could rely upon him totally when they had conversations. You'd see in "Forverts," there was a restaurant that really was -- it was a cafeteria where you brought up a tray and you took what you wanted, et cetera, which was just on the corner of East Broadway. And it was the building next door to the "Forverts," and "The Day" -- "Tog morgn-zhurnal" -- was down the street. All of the writers would go to that cafeteria and they would discuss and/or argue, et cetera. So, they knew each other but they had 17:00different points of view. My father-in-law would never have any argument. He would discuss anything and he was never -- not pushy in the slightest. In fact, the other way. He went into the background. When Lucy says that he was very competent, very good, but (laughs) as opposed to what we have now, and I won't even tell you the man's name, he never blew his own horn. (laughs) He didn't say he was good, he didn't say -- he just did his job and he did it well. Lucy also mentioned the fact that he was with the Israeli troops in different wars. He went with them. He was -- when Lucy said he was in Israel, and I believe you mentioned the area, he was in Suez. But he was surrounded. He was with the 18:00Israeli troops at the Suez War. He never said he was in any situation. You would not have known what he went through, ever. Modest to a point that was unreal.

CW:What was your personal relationship with him like?

BC:Not as close as it would be now because as I've gotten older, hopefully I've gotten more wisdom and understanding. If I can reach the point of saying that I wish I had spoken to both these people and I actually kick myself in the rear constantly, how could I be so stupid? Because they both had so much knowledge and so much understanding and there are questions I have which I'll never get answered. So, my relationship with my father, I didn't establish enough of a 19:00relationship with either. I had a good relationship but not enough because the way I look at them now -- so, that's my biggest regret.

CW:And how would you describe what he wrote about?

BC:He wrote on a level that -- he was above and he wrote better than the people who understand what he was writing. He did it at a higher level and their knowledge, understanding, and ability to discern what he was saying was not as good as he wrote it. I don't know whether I'm making myself clear. In other words, he wrote at a level that was really above them and he -- but he didn't change. That was his style. That was what he did. That was how he did it. And it's amazing that he just -- you can learn things in a school but you really 20:00learn them on the job doing. And that's what he did. He learned everything on the job, had an enormous facility for language, you have to understand. And we're talking -- I mentioned Lubavitcher. He did, too, because he learned German originally, and he went to school in Germany. He learned French and he did that. He, of course, spoke -- he knew Russian and represented his father, who was in charge, so I know a lot about the Lubavitcher --

CW:Lubavitcher.

BC:So, these people had great intellect that most individuals don't understand the depth of some of the people who've gone before.

CW:What language would you speak to your father-in-law in?

BC:English. And he was totally familiar with English. I mean, total facility. I wouldn't dare speak French in that household, because they all had great 21:00accents. And no matter what I said, I couldn't get past the first sentence. (laughs) Every word is correct and with the wrong accent.

CW:Did you ever get to read his Yiddish stuff?

BC:Yes, I did. But I'm not -- that is not a facility I'm good enough to know. But I knew enough to know from what I heard about. My father read him and both my parents liked him very much.

CW:Was there anything else you want people to know about Aron Alperin, your father-in-law?

BC:Yeah, well, basically, I wanted to say that he was -- if he had been -- had a little more ability to push himself forward, he could have been someone everyone would have known about more. But in his time, the people that he dealt with, and 22:00this was everyone from Ben-Gurion on down, knew him and liked him to a degree that you can't understand. I never met anyone, and I was important in my father-in-law's life because if he needed to go anywhere, I took him. And I did it very willingly because it was always an interesting thing. I always learned a lot. And I -- everyone respected him and everyone truly liked him. They trusted him, and that was something, you -- (laughs) trust is not a situation that travels well among men or any individuals.

CW:Great. Well, did you ever see him write?

BC:Oh, yes. He ended up -- and that's -- I remember that very, very well. He had a very large desk and he had things very nicely -- I don't know if it's -- he 23:00did it all. My mother-in-law -- but his writing paper, the paper -- he used pads, mostly yellow pads or white pads. And he would write on that, or he would type. And I would repair his typewriters. I'm pretty mechanical. So, I would repair his typewriters when I could, or I would find out where he could get it repaired or he would tell me to look into it to see how we can get it repaired. So, that meant -- that was his life. It really was his life. It was unique. There aren't too many people who are so unbelievably dedicated. It was almost dimensional. I don't want to say one-dimensional. That was it.

CW:Did he talk to you about the importance of Yiddish to him?

BC:Not -- he never told it to you just that way. He did it in things he did, 24:00which is not usual. And most people are much more direct. They tell it to you. I have to admit, I'm in the group of most people. He didn't. He did it by example. He did it by asking in a different way. As I've gotten older and with wisdom, hopefully, some of it, I've learned to respect him much more.

CW:Well, I just want to thank you very much for adding your memories --

BC:Very welcome.

CW:-- about your father-in-law.

BC:I would never say it if I didn't get to that point. And this was -- you know, being someone who is very forward-going. In other words, forthright. I don't sit back. I say what my opinion -- I'm more like my father. You get up and you do 25:00what is. And this has been my entire life, in everything I've done, and I've never been sort of a wallflower. And you see it's very hard for me to sit -- no, you should say it this way or that way. If my father-in-law had more of that, he could've been one of the people you read about.

CW:Well, thank you for adding --

BC:You're welcome.

CW:-- to our record about him.

BC:Okay.

CW:And we hope we can share his story.

BC:I'm happy to.

[End of interview]