YAAKOV WASILEWICZ ORAL HISTORY

AGNIESZKA ILWICKA:Today is August 2nd, 2017. I'm here in the YIVO Institute for Jewish Research in New York with Yaakov Wasilewicz. My name is Agnieszka Ilwicka, and I'm going to record this interview as part of the Wexler Oral History Project for the Yiddish Book Center. Yaakov Wasilewicz, do I have your permission to record this interview?

YAAKOV WASILEWICZ:Yes.

AI:Thank you very much. I would like to start with your family background. What do you know, briefly, about your family background?

YW:Well, my mother was the head of the Jewish community in Częstochowa since 1974 -- until 2017. And my father was a musician. He would go around to 1:00different places, to jails, hospitals, old age houses, and would play music for people. That was his life mission.

AI:And where was your family from? Were they from Częstochowa or somewhere else --

YW:Uh, yeah --

AI:-- back in time.

YW:My -- let me start maybe with my mother's parents. My grandfather was born in Kuźnica Stara, which is near the city of Częstochowa. His whole family lived there. As a child, he went to kheyder [traditional religious school] there. He 2:00was a very smart boy, and actually the melamed [Hebrew: teacher], the rabbi, asked him to learn -- khevruse [paired learning], with a friend -- Gemara, Talmud, and this boy was the son of a rich man. And whenever this boy didn't know the answer to a question that the melamed would ask, my grandfather would get hit. And this happened for so many times that one day, my grandfather came home and said to his parents, "It's not fair. I should get hit? He doesn't know the answer -- I teach him well, you know, but I should get hit?" So, his parents said, "You're right, you're right, that's not fair. But if you do not want to go back to kheyder, we'll send you to -- to -- to learn a trade." And he became a shoemaker. He went to Częstochowa to learn by his uncle the trade. And 3:00eventually he got married. He lived in Częstochowa. And then came the war and he was in the Częstochowa ghetto. First big ghetto, then small ghetto. And some point, his wife and his daughters, actually, with -- even a grandchild were separated. They went to the left by the selection. He went to the right and was sent to Treblinka, and he was strong. They needed him for work, so he -- he survived. He was -- he was at the -- in the Hasag at -- outside -- the labor camp, making ammunition for the Germans. My grandmother was from city of Lubochnia near Lodz -- and by one of the last transportations, she was taken by the train, and she didn't know where she was going. Right before she was taken 4:00on the train, she saw her niece. First time since the beginning of the war, 1944, I believe. Her niece wanted to go -- to go with her on the train. But my grandmother said, "You know, I'm already old. Maybe they're taking me to -- to die. You know, you're very young and maybe you'll survive." And in the ghetto, Lodz ghetto, the Germans had a number of people that they need to stick on the trains. They didn't care who they are taking, the names of people, as long as their number matched, the number that they needed to provide on the transportation. That's all they cared about. And so, so, so the niece wanted to trade with someone that wanted to stay in the ghetto, and she would go with my grandmother. But my grandmother said, "You stay. Maybe you'll survive." And my grandmother went on the train. And later on, I heard that this train was supposed to go to Auschwitz, but for some reason it ended up in Częstochowa -- 5:00in the Hasag camp. And -- and there, she also work by the machines, making ammunition for Germans. My grandfather was working with a woman, by machine, and there was a woman that -- this woman wanted to socialize, you know, during the war, you're still a human being. You want to socialize, you want to make friends. So, she want to go and socialize with other guys. So, my grandfather said, "You know, you go, I'll watch the machine. If the Nazi comes, you know, I'll quickly call you in and come back. But, you know, you go. You go, while -- I'll take care of it." And as a thanks for what he did, she said, "I have a friend. We sleep on the same bed, bunk bed. She always carries with her a needle 6:00and a thread. She's always busy with -- you know, whenever she's not working for the Nazis, she always does something. She's always productive, she's always busy with knitting." She said to him, "I see your clothing is old, since beginning of the war, you are wearing the same clothing. Let me bring to her to sew it." And this was actually my grandmother. And so, they would see each other a little bit here and there. After the war, when the Russians came and the Germans left, my grandmother, together with the people that were freed, walked to Częstochowa, because the labor camp, Hasag, was outside of Częstochowa. They walk to the Częstochowa city to look for a place where the Jews are -- they're looking -- where the Jews are, and they found a building, it -- they tried to look for 7:00place to sleep, my grandmother couldn't find a place to sleep. She went downstairs, sat on the stairs, and started to cry. That second, my grandfather came in. He recognized her from the war, and then they -- he said, "Is that you Brindl?" She said, "Yes, Mr. Wasilewicz, that's me." He said, "Why you are crying?" She said, "Because I don't have a room for -- to sleep." He said, "I have room for you to sleep." He took care of her -- 1946, my mother was born, they stayed in Częstochowa.

AI:What do you know about your mother's childhood?

YW:So, after the war, the idea was to create ability -- a place for Jews to come together, be together for the kids to -- to -- to play together, you know, the 8:00Jewish people to be together. So, a Jewish organization was created. This took a different name later on. In English, it's called a -- the Social and Cultural Association of the Jews. In Polish, Towarzystwo Społeczno-Kulturalne Żydów. In short, TSKŻ, for the first letters of the Polish words. And my mother, together with her parents, would go to the place, which was near Częstochowa. Had a beautiful garden, and she would play with other kids. She would learn Yiddish, she would learn about the Jewish holidays. She was actually in a -- in a band. She was singing. And this was -- after school, she would go there and 9:00she would -- then she would be with her Jewish friends. And -- and, of course, the parents would be with their friends. These were her -- this was her growing up in Częstochowa, you know, TSKŻ, this association was -- main office was in Warsaw and the -- its branches were located in different cities throughout Poland.

AI:Do you remember name of the street for the first TSKŻ?

YW:Unfortunately, no.

AI:And the second one, where your mother was the -- the head of --

YW:It was on Dombrowskical? Hmm, see, I don't remember exactly right now. I know how to get there, but the street -- skips my mind.

AI:Okay, not important. We can -- we can Google this later. Do you remember any songs from your mother's repertoire, preferably in Yiddish, that she would sing to you?

YW:There was a song that she liked to sing, because it was actually her father's favorite song, as well. But I cannot sing it. It was about Yankel, "Yankele 10:00shayne, shlof may Yankele [Beautiful little Yankel, sleep my little Yankel]." My grandfather's name was Yankel, and I'm named after my grandfather. So -- I don't know the tune exactly.

AI:Your mother -- your mother was a part for her whole life of a secular organization, but she had big love to celebration of Jewish holidays. What is your first memory of your home related to Jewish holidays?

YW:So, as a child, I would -- I would go with my mother to her -- this Jewish club, Jewish center. And I remember my mother organizing the Jewish holidays in the center. I remember Pesach, siddurim, she would make the kharoses [sweet dish made of apples, nuts, cinnamon, and wine eaten on Passover in memory of the clay the Israelite slaves used to make bricks in Egypt]. And the wine and the matzos were provided from Warsaw, but she always makes -- kharoses that she made, I never tasted anywhere. And I went afterwards, and --

AI:How did she make it? Do you remember recipe?

YW:See, I wish -- I wish I asked her for the recipe. Unfortunately, I don't -- but -- but whenever I go for Pesach and I try the kharoses, it's not -- it's not 12:00the same. But the Pesach, I remember, I -- this was actually a holiday that my mother remembered from her parents. And after the war, it was hard to -- to keep anything from the -- from the religious activities. And both my grandparents actually came from religious families -- but my grandmother was the one that actually made my grandfather do the Pesach seder so my mother would see what Pesach is all about, so she can learn -- and then later on, they didn't know, but when she became the head of the Jewish community, then she can actually teach this to all the Jewish people in Częstochowa.

AI:Right, but she was a head of the very secular Jewish community, right? She -- and she was a head of organization that -- that, by name, wasn't associated with 13:00religion. But then, she was the one who kept the religious aspect of it, right?

YW:Right, right, right, that's exactly true. You know, after the war, there was still a religious, you know, kehillah [Hebrew: community], gmina [Polish: community] in Częstochowa, and the old building of the mikvah [pool for ritual immersion] there in Częstochowa, but only for short time. And also, they didn't really teach kids anything. Yeah, they would just pray. Maybe there was a bar mitzvah there, but really nothing -- nothing for the kids. So, TSKŻ, the -- the association that really became the main source of education for many, many Jews that were still living in Częstochowa -- and -- and my mother, I guess, being a daughter of Yankl and Brindl, you know, that did all these things, you know -- 14:00Brindl would go, actually, to pray to the mikvah building, in the gmina. And Yankel would, because of his wife's request, would bring chickens to the shoykhet [ritual slaughterer] before Yom Kippur and would make the Pesach siddurim, so my mother would learn those things. So, that's what she learned and that's what she taught to the Jewish community there. Eventually the gmina stopped functioning and existing and TSKŻ became the main Jewish source of education for the Jewish people in Częstochowa.

AI:What do you remember from your trips to Srodborow?

YW:Oh, Srodborow, it's actually a place where I started to work.

AI:People probably who will watch this interview, they will have no idea what Srodborow is, so maybe you will start with -- with a few words of explanation.

YW:(laughs) Okay. Srodborow was a place, now, that -- where a lot of different things happened. For me, Srodborow was a place where I met other Jewish kids that live in different cities in Poland during summers and winters. It was a -- like a camp, but for families and -- with their kids, they would go and spend their summers or winters, breaks there. Being the only Jewish child in 16:00Częstochowa, I don't have any Jewish friends. So, Srodborow was the place where I finally was able to get together with my friends from different cities I didn't see the whole year, and -- but for my mother, it was a different experience. My mother's actually -- first time Srodborow was 1960s, when she was representing the youth club in Częstochowa, which was actually a youth club, which was a branch of the -- of the association named after Janusz Korczak. And she was sent to Srodborow to represent the youth group, club, in 1960s. This was her first time in Srodborow and later on, she would go representing the 17:00association, you know, people from the whole Poland come together and spend time together. It wasn't a religious camps or any activities. It was very -- culture was a -- cultural and secular Jewish people.

AI:But in your memory, does Srodborow play any role?

YW:This was the first place where I felt comfortable among other Jewish people. In Częstochowa I knew I was Jewish, but I was in public school and I didn't 18:00tell anyone that I was Jewish. And I didn't even know what it means to be Jewish. But I knew I have to keep this as a secret. I cannot tell anyone, because if I do, I'll lose my friends. This happened once. I told my friend the secret, you know, "I'm Jewish." The next day, the kids were calling me a Jew, they're telling me, "Stay away." And keep this as a secret for my identity. So growing up, knowing that I'm Jewish but not knowing what it means to be Jewish -- you know, I was asking questions and I wanted to learn what it means to be Jewish. And I guess Srodborow was the first place where I saw other Jewish kids, and I will be able to, I guess, question, understand what it means to be Jewish, 19:00trying to -- to understand who I am.

AI:And your friends' reaction, do you associate with Polish anti-Semitism, or there is any other explanation for this?

YW:You know, kids at that age -- it was second grade, third grade. What do kids know about Jews? So, my understanding was, and I think it's true, that my friend told his friends or -- and they obviously probably asked their parents what that means. And it probably came from their parents, which was a -- anti-Semitic comments, which started all this, all this comments.

AI:Your mother never left Częstochowa. Do you think that she experienced anti-Semitism?

YW:You know what? I actually asked her that question and she said that in the end of the school year, it used to be that the best students would get a present, a book. And she was the one of few students that would always get this present from being one of the best students at the school, in her class. And she remembers that whenever she would get up and go to get the book, all the people will say -- you know, non-Jewish parents will say, "Only Jews, only Jews are 21:00getting the prizes." So, it was like the only, only, only thing that she remembers. And also, she was studying in university, either in Warsaw or Katowice. She remembers people around her would make a joke, and if the joke would be about Jews, she would know to stay away. She wouldn't say anything that she's Jewish, but she already knew, "That's not people that I want to be so friendly with." And also, when she started to work in [Zannet?] -- was a pan factory in Częstochowa -- and she was working there, and many times, she tried to actually leave for Israel. Unfortunately, never happened or worked out. She 22:00was denied to leave. But many times, she -- at her workplace, she would ask for different documents, so people knew that she's trying to go to Israel. And some people were nice about it, some people didn't say anything. But it was life. It was life, and she always wore Magen David, the Star of David. She had a very strong Jewish identity. I, many times, you know, when I was able to actually see the Magen David, I would tell my mother, "Cover it, cover it," 'cause I was afraid. But she would wear it, she wouldn't care.

AI:Yaakov, I would like to ask you about your education, both Jewish and non-Jewish. So, maybe let's start with non-Jewish background.

YW:Sure.

AI:Maybe first Polish, and then if you can introduce us to the further steps from your education.

YW:So, I went to a non-Jewish pre-school, and the kindergarten, because in Częstochowa there was no Jewish kheyder, no Jewish schools. I went to a regular non-Jewish kindergarten, pre-school. And then, I went to a -- elementary school in Częstochowa. In Poland, it's the six classes. And then, I graduated from that school and I went to Gymnasium in Częstochowa. So, instead of going for 24:00three years in that Gymnasium, I actually went for only two years, two and a half, because at that time, I was moving to Warsaw. I moved to Warsaw and I attended the Jewish school in Warsaw, the Lauder School. And after graduating the Lauder School -- you know, the reason why I actually moved to Warsaw was because I wanted to learn more about Judaism, and twice a year, there was a camp, during winter and during summer, Lauder Camp, created by Ronald Lauder, who is the head of the World Jewish Congress today, and famous -- son of famous Estee Lauder makeup company. But he wanted to be famous for something else. He 25:00wanted to do something of his own, so he created this Jewish organization, Lauder Foundation, to help Jews in Europe with education. Created schools after his name, and camps. So, together with my mother -- besides Srodborow, which was the secular Jewish camp, I would go to this religious camp. And this really attracted all Jews from Poland, because until now, all people knew was Srodborow. They wanted to see something -- something new. So, this Lauder Camp, what is this? People from America come to teach about Judaism, people are learning something very exciting, very exciting. It was a very magical place. 26:00You had old Jews from Poland with their children, Holocaust survivors. Three generations of Polish Jews coming together to one place, hearing lectures given by rabbis. There are people coming from places in the world -- England, Israel -- to teach. Very exciting. So me, as a -- as a little boy, I would go there with my mother. And that's what made me interested in -- more in-depth kind of life, religious life. I would ask questions, I would get the answers that really would talk to me and to my neshome, my soul. And I want to go that path. So I moved to Warsaw -- I went to the Lauder School, and I actually -- my mother would often say to people what I did, that moment she remembered that we went to 27:00the Lauder school. And all of a sudden, I took out of my pocket the yarmulke. And she said to me, "You don't have to wear that." And I said, "I know, but I want to." So, she didn't push me that direction. She was -- she knew she's Jewish, and that was it. She -- but for me, I wanted to do more. I wanted to do something. And for me, to wear a yarmulke was a -- I felt that I'm doing something towards that direction. That's my Judaism. And I was the only one in the whole school of few children wearing yarmulke. I graduated the Lauder School 28:00and there was a time that I don't know where I'm going to go for high school. For high school, yes. All my friends from the Lauder School were applying for different high schools in Warsaw, and I was already becoming more and more religious, more and more observant, learning about kashres [kosherness], but reading Hebrew, praying, keeping Shabbos. And I didn't want to go to a public high school. There was no Jewish high school in Poland. The Lauder School was until the third grade of Gymnasium, which is the -- I guess ninth grade in United States. And for the tenth grade, I guess, for the high school, I would have to go somewhere else. But since there was no Jewish high school in Poland 29:00and I wanted to learn more about my Judaism, I want to be more observant, I came to America. And the person who actually helped me to go to a yeshiva was a rabbi who had come to the Lauder Camp every year to teach. And his name is Rabbi [Heschel?] Lieber of Boiberik -- he actually goes still to the camp to teach. Not every year, but whenever he can. And he's also the khazn [cantor] in the Nożyk Warsaw Synagogue every Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur. And he is my rabbi. He found me the place, the yeshiva to go to. And the yeshiva that he found was a Bobov yeshiva in Boiberik, a Hasidic yeshiva.

AI:What is specific, what is different in Bobov synagogue and Bobov yeshiva from 30:00other --

YW:Good question. Bobov Hasidic Yeshiva is very different than, I guess, other Litvish [Lithuanian Jewish] yeshivas, first of all because it's Hasidic, so the students, the teachers are Hasidim, with peyes [sidelocks], wearing long rekl [jackets], bekeshe [long coat lined with fur]. Different clothing, beards. Not the kids. The rabbis. But me coming from Poland, from Częstochowa and not really seeing Hasidim in Poland at all, you know, come to this environment -- very exotic environment -- was interesting. But my rabbi actually saw that it 31:00wasn't for me. Wasn't for me. After a month or so, standing there, he says, "I have a place for you. A different place, different yeshiva. Regular, normal yeshiva in Baltimore." And so, that's where I went to. This yeshiva was for regular boys, clean-shaven. But for only boys. No girls. Girls had their own school, Bais Yaakov. And the boys had -- there were different kinds of yeshivas, this one called Talmudical Academy of Baltimore. After -- named after Chofetz Chaim from Radin, so --

AI:What subjects did you learn?

YW:There were secular subjects, too -- math, biology, history, English, and so on. But these subjects were afternoon. In the morning, we would learn Talmud, 32:00Gemara, Chomesh [Hebrew: Pentateuch], Halachah, Hashkafa [Hebrew: worldview and guiding philosophy], the thought -- Jewish thought, you know. And --

AI:And in what language or languages it -- the school was delivering the knowledge about religious subjects to you?

YW:So, when I went to the school, I was fifteen years old. And I didn't know English so well. And coming to the yeshiva, not knowing English and not knowing Torah, not knowing the Jewish subjects, 'cause I never learned them in Poland. And so, I'm behind. So, they said, We'll put you into second grade. You will sit 33:00with the little kids and you will learn. So, I said, "Okay." And they got me a big desk. And I sat with the kids, and they were learning, you know, (singing) "Vayomer moshe, moshe chesed [Hebrew: And Moses said, Moses the benevolent]," with a tune. (sings wordlessly) And I would learn the pesukim, the verses of the Torah with the rebbe. And I remember when I said my first pasuk [Hebrew: verse], my first pasuk in my life, and I translated it into English with the tune, all the kids were clapping.

AI:Do you remember it?

YW:I remember it. It was really amazing.

AI:Do you still have in mind the whole verse?

YW:I remember it was -- I believe it was parshah "Chayei Sorah" [Hebrew: Torah 34:00portion "The life of Sarah"]. One of the first few parshahs in the toyre [Torah], in the khumesh [Pentateuch]. And it was a very nice experience, learning with the kids, but it was time to move on, and I said, "I think it's time to move on." And I went to fourth grade. I learned the mishnayes [complete edition of the six volumes of the Mishnah] for the first time. Second year, I went to sixth grade, and eighth grade, I started to learn Talmud Gemara for the first time. And then, I went to tenth grade and twelfth grade. And in four years, I graduated from elementary school, middle school, and high school.

AI:Kol hakavod [Hebrew: Well done].

YW:(laughs) Thank you.

AI:And how about your mother? 'Cause she was in Poland. You were here in United States. What was this experience for you and for her, too?

YW:Being far from my mother was very hard, you know, being the only child. And I know it was hard for her, as well. But I remember, when I was graduating the Lauder School in Warsaw and when I actually came to America, for Pesach, was invited to come for first time, to come to America. And I went to my rabbi, Rabbi Lieber and other rabbi, Rabbi [Naishus?] whom I met, actually, in Warsaw, one time. I told them, "You know, I'm about to graduate Lauder School in Warsaw. What should I do?" And they said, you know, We'll try to help you come to 36:00America. And when I came to -- back to my mother and I said to her, "Mom, you know I might be able to come to America to learn in a yeshiva. Can I go?" And she wouldn't say anything. She wouldn't answer. So, and, you know, keep asking her, "Mom, can I go? Can I go? Can I go?" And eventually, she said, "If you want to go, go." But, of course I knew that it was hard for her to let me go. But I also knew that she wanted me to get that Jewish education that she never received. And that's why she actually would bring me to this Lauder Camp in 37:00Poland, so that I can get this education. I can learn what it means to be Jewish, about the Holy Days, the things that she never learned from her parents. Few things, but not enough. But for me, that's what she wanted. At least I should have that. And later on, we would joke around. I would teach my mother what I learned in yeshiva. And she would say, "Who's the chicken over here? Who's the egg? Who was first over here? Who taught you first?" But she was happy I know these things. And she was happy I could teach her.

AI:How did you manage the feeling of loneliness here in United States, especially during your teenage years?

YW:One more time?

AI:How did you manage the whole feeling of loneliness to Poland, to your mother, especially during your teenage school years? Do you have any tips for people who are in similar situation?

YW:So, actually, when I left Poland, I told myself I have to really separate myself from Poland. If I really want to be part of this Jewish life here and Orthodox life, let me separate myself and really become part of this life here. Really be part of that religious life. And I became very religious in the beginning. But then, I started to think, It's not really who I am. I have to remember where I came from. I'm from Poland. I'm a Polish Jew, not American Jew. 39:00I'm a Polish Jew. And I'm the -- I'm part of the history of the Polish Jews. My family was in Poland for a hundred years. So, I said to myself, I want to connect to Poland more. After coming here, I wanted to actually start educating people in Poland, people that never had this opportunity to live and learn in yeshiva. I said to myself, I have this opportunity, I want to give back. I want to teach. I want to educate. And this became, actually, my goal. Many years. I wanted to go back to Poland to teach and to become rabbi. And then -- and to 40:00open my own place somewhere in Poland and teach. So, I would go back to Poland, I would still go to the Lauder Camp, and I would still try to contribute to the camp: either activities for the children, the stories or something from the parshah so I can give back what I got. Many times, I spoke to people in Poland and I said, "I want to come back, I want to teach. I want to help Jewish communities here." And I was shocked to hear that the people are actually telling me not to come back. They are telling me, There is not too many Jews living in Poland. If you come back, you'll be surprised, you know? It's better 41:00for you to stay in America. Stay in America, learn. If you want to teach, teach here, in America, but don't come back to Poland. So, I was sad to hear this. And I still to -- I still want to help and teach people that want to learn. And I sometimes have these opportunities to give back. I was in Israel, I was part of the Shavei Israel seminar for the Polish Jews that came for summer, for few weeks, to see places in Israel and to learn little bit. So, I give a lecture to Polish Jews about prayer, you know? So, sometimes, occasionally, there are opportunities that I can give back, and that's what I really want to do.

AI:But you said that you started to do more projects, and this is also related 42:00with a very sad event from your life, right?

YW:You know, my mother passed away about six months ago. Her -- what became her really life mission -- by taking over the Jewish Association in Częstochowa, becoming the head of the Jewish community in Częstochowa. She -- her life -- would try to help the Częstochowa Jews in Częstochowa, but also around the 43:00world, people that had families from Częstochowa. They would contact her, would call her. Many times, I was present when my mother would get a phone call from Israel, from Canada, all around the world, asking questions about Częstochowa and she was the -- like an encyclopedia, you know? She was -- she knew so much about Częstochowa. She would be able to direct them, help them. And she would often say that every person has a story. Every person has a story, and the story needs to be told. And I took on myself this project of preservation, of the 44:00history, the memory of the Jewish life that existed in Częstochowa before the war, but also after the war, to preserve these unique, special stories, family stories that many times were never told to the children, to the grandchildren. And then the people passed away, and those stories went to the ground with the person that passed away. So, I said to myself, It's not too late yet. There are still people, older people that are still living, and I have to preserve those stories -- and stories that were told to the next generation. Those stories, I also have to preserve for the next generation. Pictures. Who are those people in 45:00the pictures? Stories. Everything. Those things have to be preserved. And I said to myself, If it's not me, then who will do that. If it's not now, when?

AI:Did you already collect any stories?

YW:Yes.

AI:Do you remember any favorite one?

YW:I remember a story of a -- an old man who passed away already. But he remembered when he was a young child in Częstochowa. His father would bring him to the train station in Częstochowa, whenever the Gerer Rebbe would pass by on 46:00a train. And since Poland had a lot of Gerer Hasidim, the Hasidim from Góra Kalwaria, Gerer Hasidim were big in Poland -- so, and in Częstochowa there was Gerer Hasidim, so his family was a Gerer. And his father would take him to the train station to just wave to the Gerer Rebbe, and to me this just shows a little bit of the life that existed in Częstochowa before the war which you don't have now in Poland. You don't have rebbes in Poland. And all these rebbes came from Poland: (UNCLEAR) Ger, Aleksander, all these rebbes, all these Hasidic guys, they started in Poland. Of course, Russia, as well, Ukraine. But, you know -- those were the Polish Hasidim. And me, as a Polish Jew, I really connect to 47:00that, to the Poland that existed. I wish I was living in that Poland. I many times have a dream -- at night, I will dream, you know, walking on the streets of Poland, of Częstochowa, walking to the shtibl [small Hasidic house of prayer], to this kheyder [traditional religious school] picking up -- Talmud learning, walking, you know, like I look here in America with a yarmulke, tsitses [tassels on the prayer shawl or undergarment worn by Orthodox Jews] whenever I go back to Poland, I put the tsitses in my pants, with a cap -- not to look Jewish, because I'm still afraid. You know, growing up in Poland, going to the public school, you know, I heard things about Jews, and I still have that fear.

AI:Did ever something bad happen to you?

YW:So, when I was a child, some of the friends knew that I was Jewish because 48:00they remember it from the time when I told them the secret. Or I told one of the friends the secret and he told other people. So, they remembered. And I also didn't attend the classical religion in school where they learned about their religion. I didn't go. And they would ask, Why don't you go to the religion? And I wouldn't say. I think I would make excuse, "I don't believe in God" or anything, just to make an excuse. And they figure it out I'm Jewish, and they would just call me Jew and would spit at me sometimes. And there was a guy who lived in my block. Actually, next block. But he would see me around the street, and he would stop me and bully me, and he would say, "Say this religious prayer." And I would have to say it, you know? And I attended the class a few 49:00times, so I knew how to say it and he would let me go. But --

AI:You mean Catholic religious?

YW:Yes, yes, the Catholic -- right. And he would check if I'm Jewish or not, do I know this prayer? And thank God, I studied so much. I didn't know the whole thing, but just a few lines. He would let me go. Yeah, and it was scary. And I still have that fear in me whenever I go back to Poland.

AI:Do you think that it's safe to come to Poland, for a religious Jew, looking like religious person --

YW:So, depending where you're going -- I would not recommend going by yourself after dark somewhere that you don't know where you're going, because even 50:00though, everywhere you have good people, you have good -- and you have bad people. You cannot say in the whole nation -- the whole country is bad. So, there's a lot of good people in Poland. I know that. And -- but there are also not good people, you have to be careful. And that's why, since I don't know who I'm dealing with, better not to mention that I'm Jewish. I put a cap on, put regular clothing and don't look Jewish.

AI:Do you have the same feeling in America?

YW:No. In America, I can look like this, no one's calling me a Jew, a Jew. It's 51:00why I -- thankful to God for giving me this opportunity to come to America, live here, where I don't have to fear who I am, I can be myself.

AI:So, my next question is about what was it -- what does it mean to you to be yourself? Because you are a Talmudic scholar, and that's one profession. Do you teach now? This is one of many things that you are doing?

YW:Yes, I -- few years ago, together with my friends from yeshiva -- we started a -- educational program for Jewish boys -- that they don't know much about Judaism, they're traditional -- they come from Iran. And we teach them in a 52:00synagogue once a week on Monday nights. And it's really a pleasure seeing them wanting to learn, which reminds me about me, myself, when I was thirsty for this knowledge. So, to give back, it's a pleasure. And those boys really ask questions, and we teach them. We teach them about Judaism.

AI:And what else are you doing, despite of teaching?

YW:Despite teaching meaning besides?

AI:Besides, yes.

YW:Yes, yes, yes. Sorry.

AI:Of course.

YW:So, besides teaching, I am also a composer. I compose nigunim -- just 53:00melodies without words, and songs with traditional prayer texts. I play guitar. I go to places wherever they want to hear me, hear music. That's where I play. Birthday parties, sheva-brakhos [Ashkenazi Hebrew: reception given by the newlyweds on the first Friday evening after their wedding], bar mitzvah, bat mitzvah.

AI:Do you have any favorite nign [melody]?

YW:The nign -- I have many different favorite niggunim [melodies]. (sings 54:00wordlessly) That's actually a nign which I learned in the camp, Lauder Camp in Poland.

AI:Is this the one from Częstochowa?

YW:No, no, this is nign and it's a -- I believe it's a nign that was composed by Shlomo Carlebach. So, it's a composer which -- you know, my soul connects to his music. And that's what I actually play. I play Carlebach songs wherever I go, 55:00because that's -- his songs are filled with happiness, with -- just people coming together, dancing together to that music and it's -- that's really -- my goal is to really bring happiness and simcha to the people.

AI:Do you remember the tune for the Częstochowa nign?

YW:Sure. (laughs) So, it's actually mine, I composed it. And I call it "Częstochowa nign." (sings without lyrics)

AI:I would like to ask you about nigunim, about this whole genre and if you could tell me what exactly is the magic of nign?

YW:So, the difference between a nign and a song, a song has words, and whenever you sing a song -- has words. You focus on the words, of course you sing those words to the melody. But your focus is mainly on the words. But when you sing a 59:00nign that has no words, it's beyond this world. You cannot think about anything. That's what is so deep. A nign is very, very deep, so deep -- you connect your soul.

AI:Neshome.

YW:Neshome.

AI:And what is about your Jewish neshome -- I would like to ask you about -- do you have any connection, any sense of Yiddishkayt, or this is something that is 60:00just a word with name --

YW:Yiddishkayt? I think I'm very connected to my soul, to my neshome, and to every person, Yiddishkayt means something else. To me, it means to be in touch with your soul, and understanding what soul is, that it comes from a higher place. And before a soul came to this world, it came from above. All that it did 61:00up there was it sang praises. Sang praises to God, together with the angels. And when we sing songs, my soul rejoices because it remembers what it was like before it came to this world. Knowing that I'm Jewish and being told this when I 62:00was a few years old, coming home, back from pre-school, telling my mother, "Mom, tomorrow we are -- we cannot eat meat, we are going to church, and the priest is going to put ashes on our heads." And my mother telling me, "Kuba" -- 'cause my Polish name is Kuba -- "Kuba, sit down, I have something to tell you. If you do not want to eat meat tomorrow, no problem. I'm not giving meat to you. But you will not go to church." And I said, "Why not?" She said, "Because you are Jewish." These words, "because you are Jewish" -- what does that mean? I'm Jewish. Is he Jewish, is she Jewish? No. You and him, but not her and him. So, 63:00I'm part of a group of people of some nation of this Jewish people. So, knowing this, I tried to understand this. Well, what does that mean, to be part of this Jewish nation, Jewish people? Studying texts, the religious texts, does that make you Jewish? Or is it something beyond that? So to me, it's not just the text. It's the soul. It's the Jewish soul, the neshome that I connect to, and I 64:00try -- through playing music for other people -- I try to help them to get in touch with their soul, their neshome.

AI:Does Yiddish play any role in your life?

YW:Which play? (laughs) (UNCLEAR)

AI:(laughs) No, I mean, I'm just thinking, because you're coming from mother who spoke Yiddish, who was a big fighter for Yiddish survival. Not revival, but survival of Yiddish in Poland. Her main activism, one of many, was also to focus on having in Częstochowa, Yiddish books, Yiddish language, even if it was only by the fact that she was there. It was very important for her. Did she pass some 65:00of this to you, or what happened to the language in terms of your --

YW:My first time hearing my mother speak Yiddish was when she received a phone call from a rabbi who I met in Warsaw synagogue at the age of twelve. My mother didn't know so much about religion. But she wanted me to have a bar mitzvah. She knew a boy has to have a bar mitzvah at the age of thirteen. So, she called the chief rabbi of Poland. At that time, he was rabbi of two big cities in Poland, Warsaw and Łódź, Michael Schudrich. And she asked him, "Rabbi Schudrich, you 66:00know my son from the Lauder Camp in Poland. Can you help him to have a bar mitzvah?" So, he asked her, "Does he have a bris?" So, she said, "No." There was no moyel [ritual circumciser] living in Poland at the time. There's no moyel in Poland living today. So, "No, he didn't have a bris, he doesn't have a bris." He says, "He has to have a bris first." So, he calls on his rabbi in Monsey, New York, Rabbi Fisher to come to Poland to do my bris. And we came to Warsaw by train. And when we got there, we were told Rabbi Fisher couldn't come. Something happened with his plane. So, we went back to Częstochowa. Few weeks later, Rabbi Schudrich calls us again and he says, "This time, Rabbi Fisher, the moyel 67:00will come. Come again." So, we came again. And before we went to the synagogue, we stopped in the Yiddish Theater in Warsaw. My mother ran a Jewish club in Częstochowa, would many times invite -- for years, for over forty-three years, right -- Yiddish Theater to come to Częstochowa to play. And me, as a little child, I remember them acting in Yiddish. And then -- and I remember many of the songs they still sing until today, the Yiddish Theater. I mean, unfortunately, the Yiddish Theater doesn't exist anymore in the place where it used to. But at that time, it was there.

AI:On Plac Grzybowski --

YW:Plac Grzybowski, right.

AI:Just next to the synagogue.

YW:That's right, the Jewish Quarter so, we enter the -- that Yiddish Theater, and we ate something there. And my mother saw her friend there, and she says, 68:00"Oh!" She's very surprised, and what are we doing here in Warsaw? So, my mother said, "My son is going to have a bris." So, she says -- she took me aside, she says, "Don't do that. It's like chopping off your arm," you know, trying to scare me. And I said to her, "Oh, thank you. But I'm a Jewish boy and if a Jewish boy has to have a bris, has to be circumcised, I want to be circumcised. I want to have a bris." And that was it. We went to the synagogue. And at that time, Rabbi Fisher was there, Rabbi Schudrich was there. They welcomed us, and before I went to the room -- actually, Rabbi Schudrich, you know, with his -- wisdom, he says to me, "I just want you to know something. Before you have a 69:00bris, I just want to let you know that when I -- when I had a bris, I couldn't walk for a year." I said, "Oh, okay." And then he says, "I was eight days old." (laughs) So, we laughed and I went to the room. And then, at that time, it was right after the yortsayt [anniversary of death] of Rov Elimelech of Lizhensk. So, Hasidim were coming back from the yortsayt, from Lizhensk and some of them went to the Jewish cemetery in Warsaw. Some came to the synagogue to see the famous Warsaw Nożyk Synagogue that survived the war. And I come in and they see that there is a bris. But it's not a bris of a baby. It's a bris of a bigger 70:00baby. And all the Hasidim decided to become my sandek [man holding the baby during circumcision], which is like a godfather, you know? And he couldn't hold me. Usually, you hold a baby. You can't hold (laughs) grown-up young man. So -- he actually asked me if I want to change my name. So, I never heard this idea of goes by the bris, once the boy is eight days old, that's where you give the Jewish name. My mother didn't give me a Jewish name. When she was pregnant and she didn't know if I would be a girl or a boy, she said to herself, "If it's a girl, I don't know if I'll name her after my mother, you know, Brayndl, Bronya -- for a girl, Bronya, oh! But if it's a boy, I'll name him after -- after my 71:00father, Yankel." You know, in Polish, Jakub. I came out and my mother knew already what name she would give me. So, she named me Kuba, yeah. So, by the bris, the rabbi's asking me do I want to change my name? He didn't know my name. You know, this khosid, this sandek. So, I said, "No, no, no, I'm okay with my name." Years later, he told me that the name he want to give me was Yaakov. True story. So, obviously shows that this is the right name I was supposed to have. But going back to that phone call my mother received, was the phone call from this khosid, this rabbi. And he didn't speak English, he didn't speak Polish, I 72:00didn't speak English, neither. But he spoke Yiddish. And my mother knew Yiddish, but I never heard my mother speak Yiddish. This was the first time I heard my mom speak Yiddish. And I said to my mom, "Mom, what language is this?" And she said, "Oh, that's right, I never spoke Yiddish at home. This is Yiddish." And from that time on, I wanted my mother to teach me Yiddish. Whenever I would come back during summer to see my mother in Poland, I would try to talk to her in Yiddish. The words I knew from living in Borough Park and the Hasidim, you know, I would try to talk to her and try to pull her tongue to tell me more words in Yiddish, because her Yiddish was different. Her Yiddish was Polish Yiddish. And 73:00to me this was very important, I wanted to learn the mame-loshn [mother tongue language, i.e. Yiddish]. I wanted to learn my mother's Yiddish. And so, I figure this out -- I would learn a word here, a word there. And I can't say I speak Yiddish today, 'cause I don't. Unfortunately, I don't. But I know a little bit, and I'm happy that my mother spoke to me. I have some recordings, actually. I recorded my mother secretly, talking in Yiddish, singing Yiddish. It was a really -- pleasure hearing my mother singing in Yiddish. (sighs)

AI:Indeed, it was.

YW:You remember you met -- you met my mother?

AI:I really do, and she had beautiful voice. (Yaakov sighs) Your mom was a true 74:00Yiddish lover. And, to my knowledge, she was the last person who spoke Yiddish in Częstochowa.

YW:Yes, yes, she was the last person who spoke Yiddish in Częstochowa. And she -- like I mentioned, she had many Yiddish books at home and in the Jewish Center. And she knew that nobody else can read Yiddish. And she was happy if someone came and was able to borrow a book. Or she was even happy to give the books to people, 'cause she knew someone will use them. You know, "Here in Częstochowa, no one speaks Yiddish. Who will read them? At least I can give it to someone who will appreciate it, who will use it."

AI:Now you're doing a project to commemorate your mother, right?

YW:Yes.

AI:So, could you please tell more about this project, 'cause maybe someone who will watch this interview will remember your mother.

YW:The project I'm working on is a project -- really to commemorate my mother and her work. Therefore, I collect pictures and stories, videos, you know, of her work, what she did in Częstochowa. And I occasionally meet people that visited Częstochowa -- and there's a lot of people that, over the years, visited Częstochowa, met with my mother. And some of those people have pictures 76:00or videos of my mother. And I tried to put them together and eventually make something out of it, maybe a book or a film.

AI:And your mother's name was?

YW:My mother's name was Halina Wasilewicz. She actually had a Jewish name, as well, and her Hebrew name was Chai-Evita, named after her mother's mother.

AI:What is your most favorite memory of your mother?

YW:Hoo! When I think about my mother, I see her smile, because she was always happy, even though she didn't have an easy life. You know, losing father in a 77:00young age and her mother, being in a wheelchair at some point, taking care of her older parents who survived the war, you know, they were Holocaust survivors. Her life wasn't easy. And yet, she was able to have that smile on her face at all times, which would inspire me to be like that, to always have that smile. No matter how hard life is and can get, a smile has to be there. That's what she was like, and everyone remembers her as such person, happy person. Always, 78:00always happy, always hearing music. You know, she would dance even though she would walk with a cane. She would put the cane aside and she would dance. There was always radio playing in the kitchen. She would cook and she would dance. Happiness, that simcha, true simcha, that happiness. So, that's why I grew up with (UNCLEAR) to me, that's what my mother was. Pure, pure happiness. (pause)

AI:I would like to ask you one more question. Do you have any advice or a word 79:00of wisdom that you would like to tell to the people who are looking for Judaism, who are looking for the true nature of Jewishness, but they don't know where to start, where to go, how to begin? Do you have anything for them?

YW:They can come to me. (laughs) I'll be able to help. I'll be happy to help, and answer any questions that they have. If it's possible -- if they live in an area where there is a Jewish community and there is a rabbi they can maybe talk to, or someone to answer their questions, I would suggest maybe that. Yeah, 80:00nowadays, there is a lot of things online, and there are books. And it's -- a lot of material there -- of course, it's always better to meet with a person and it's -- talk to him, that's -- that's how I connected -- and that's how I tried to begin, by joining with -- talking to people. So, if there's someone that they can talk to, I would -- suggest them to find someone in the local Jewish community. Or contact me. I'll be happy to help.

AI:Your journey to Judaism was long. It wasn't a simple path. You weren't born in Borough Park. What was the most difficult part in this whole process?

YW:So, growing up in Częstochowa, not knowing anything about Yiddishkayt, not knowing anything about Judaism, I was thirsty for the knowledge. And when I came to America, I was happy to learn anything. But learning is one thing, and then 82:00applying to everyday life, it's something else. So, when I was taught that we cannot touch a girl, dance with a girl, have a girlfriend, that was hard. It was really hard. (laughs) But I said to myself -- and really, it was a prayer to God, I said, "God, I'm here, trying to be a good boy, a good Jew, and I really 83:00want to do the right thing. Help me to do the right thing." And somehow, God gave me that strength to be strong and really focus on studying. And it paid off because I just kind of got engaged to a wonderful, wonderful special girl and, let me tell you, it was worth it. Worth the wait.

AI:Thank you, a sheynem dank, on behalf of the Yiddish Book Center Wexler Oral History Project, and from my own side, Kuba, bardzo ci dziękuję [Polish: a genuine thank you].

YW:A sheynem dank [Thank you very much].

[END OF INTERVIEW]